Episode Transcript
[00:00:11] Speaker A: What's worthwhile healing mind, body and spirit. I'm Ramsey Zimmerman. I choose peace of mind, vitality of.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: Body, and joy of spirit over stress, exhaustion, or overwhelm. Together, let's explore and pursue the many.
[00:00:25] Speaker A: Ways to build holistic health and wellness.
[00:00:31] Speaker C: I want. What can I do? What brings me joy? What do I enjoy? I had been so busy being stressed that I hadn't thought about that. So when I started consciously focusing on gratitude and joy and even, you know, working more in relationships with, with my family, going, having better conversations, those things really helped me to see, hey, wait a minute, my life's really good. Yeah, I got some stuff, but you know what, I'm safe. And so that was just a real turning point right there as far as emotionally. But then unexpected to me was that then the fatigue started to lift.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: Hey there, it's Ramsey here.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: That was Lori Clements. Lori is a wellness coach and mindfulness practitioner who spent 27 years navigating chronic illness and fatigue. But she reclaimed her life through a powerful approach called self directed neuroplasticity. Now fully recovered, Lori helps others. We spoke about her own story, how stress can create brain body feedback loops which trigger physical symptoms. And her best advice on how to rewire our brains, rebuild our wellness, and rediscover our joy. Lori has a great YouTube channel and has written a book called Rewire your wellness. Whether you're worn out from a long day's work or struggling just to get out of bed today, I think you'll.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: Get a lot out of this conversation.
[00:02:07] Speaker A: Let's get started.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: Hey, Laurie, how are you doing today?
[00:02:11] Speaker C: I'm doing well. How are you, Ramsey?
[00:02:14] Speaker B: I am doing really great. Thanks a bunch for coming on with me today. I appreciate it.
You are a wellness coach and mindfulness practitioner and you focus on helping your clients that feel stuck in chronic symptoms of fatigue and stress.
Your treatment approach is called self directed neuroplasticity. So why don't we, why don't we start there? What is self directed neuroplasticity?
[00:02:46] Speaker C: Self directed neuroplasticity is actually, it's just kind of a sciency name for learning.
We're constantly learning and we recognize that we learn new things, new information, but our brain is also taking in so much of what's going on around us and processing that. And so when we go through a period of stress, our brain is learning, hey, the world's hard out there. It's hard.
And so then we can develop this, this ongoing stress response so that even when the stress might be passed, the Brain has learned it's scary out there and so it can stay in the stress response long after the stress is actually gone.
And the great thing about, because the brain can learn these patterns, we can also learn newer, better patterns. We can unwire that old stress and teach the brain self directed that, hey, wait a minute, the stress is gone, we can relax now, we can be, we can be at peace, we can have fun, we can let go.
And so really we have so much more ability to direct that stress, stress response than science realized for a long time. And so now we're starting to learn more about how to direct through that self directed neuroplasticity, letting go of that stress response.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: Okay, that makes a lot of sense, but let's, let's spend some time laying out some background first. So I understand that you spent like 27 years dealing with chronic illness and fatigue.
What was that like? Tell us, tell us about that.
[00:04:51] Speaker C: It was, it was overwhelming at times.
My, my symptoms included chronic fatigue syndrome, migraines, chronic pain, Lyme disease, mold illness, lupus, a number of different things. And it was isolating because for so many of those years I was homebound and at times even bedbound, I felt very helpless and really, a lot of times really hopeless. I had been doctor to doctor to doctor, medicines, treatments, and it just kept coming back with either there's nothing wrong, we're not finding anything, or yeah, your blood works off, but it's not anything that we can really fix. You're going to have to learn to live with it.
And again, just that hopelessness of feeling stuck and then trying to keep up with life, family, kids, just all the keeping up that I was trying to do really piled on more and more of that stress and you know, going through periods of doing a little bit better and then having these major crashes and again, just that keep sending those messages to my brain of hey, the world's hard, world's hard out there and staying really stuck in that stress response.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: And it must have, you must have had lots of ups and downs, right? Because you were living your life and you were doing things and you were working and you were having a family, but it was just sort of something that was always kind of with you. Sort of something that you always, you carried and something that sort of was what? Kind of like an anchor?
[00:06:49] Speaker C: Yeah, an anchor is a good word for it. Just the weight of that. And there were times when I wasn't working, there were times when I was not even able to leave the house for months on end.
My husband and My kids, it just the guilt of not being able to be a good mom to my kids. My daughter didn't go through her graduation because I couldn't be there with her. And that just. That hurt so much to see that, just to feel that, that like I was failing at life, failing at being a mom, failing at being a wife.
And again, just the isolation of not having those relationships, not having that time to connect with people, to go out to dinner with someone, or to even be able to have people in the house. So, yeah, it was just very.
It felt very heavy. There were times when I could get out, but there was always that fear of, but if I overdo it, I'm going to crash and I'm going to end up homebound again.
And so there's always that underlying fear, even when I was able to get out a little bit and do things.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: So what was the. What was the turning point? How and when did things start to turn around?
[00:08:11] Speaker C: Right about the time my daughter graduated from high school, I started to realize that, okay, my, my, my job with the kids is, is, you know, there's still stuff, but the, the kids are a little more gone and kind of like, if you want to call it that midlife crisis of, what do I want?
What can I do? What brings me joy? What do I enjoy?
And I had been so busy being stressed that I hadn't thought about that. I had just been so busy taking care of everybody else and then trying to keep my minimum just to get by.
And surprisingly enough, I. I didn't know what I wanted. I didn't know what felt good because I'd been so many years of not doing it.
And so at that point, I had been homebound for several years. I thought, you know what? I just want to get outside. So I started with walking to the mailbox and just slowing down and enjoying nature.
Eventually walking a couple doors down and then being able to start walking more.
Things like I started learning to do watercolor.
I'm not artsy, but letting go of the judgment and just trying to enjoy the process.
I hadn't done done that for years.
And being able to just again, slow down and listen to what was going on inside. What am I thinking?
We can get so busy or we can get so discouraged that we don't slow down to think about what's going on inside. And then being able to focus those thoughts instead of on the stress, being able to focus it on the gratitude. And again, I had. And our brain works this way. Our brain focuses on the negative in an effort to keep us safe, to figure things out. Our brain is wired that way. And so when I started consciously focusing on gratitude, joy, and even, you know, working more in relationships with. With my family, going, Having better conversations rather than just, we got to clean the kitchen and get ready, really recognizing the emotions and gratitude, those things really help me to see, hey, wait a minute. My life's really good.
[00:10:54] Speaker B: You.
[00:10:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I got some stuff, but you know what? I'm safe and I can relax.
And. And I. I just had never thought like that before because I was so wrapped up in the worries.
And so that was just a real turning point right there as far as. As emotionally. But then unexpected to me was that then the fatigue started to lift.
And it just really. It was not the purpose that I went into it with. The purpose was just to find some joy and to start living my. My life and find some. Some fun and connection and. But I really learned a lot then about that whole mind and body connection.
We really are so, so connected. So that when the mind is saying, hey, life is stressful, the body is having actual chemical responses to those thoughts. And so then the body is having reactions as well.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's really powerful.
You know, I think and talk a lot on the podcast about mind, body, spirit, wellness, and about all of those interconnections.
And, you know, I really think that that's true. And. And kind of one of the. One of the goals that I sort of think about is, is vitality. And I generally think of vitality as being a kind of physical body issue, but that it's all interconnected. Right. Like the mind and spirit stuff plays into the vitality too, doesn't it?
[00:12:50] Speaker C: Absolutely. And it's really amazing. I was actually looking through a study today, and it was from back in 2022, and it was going through thousands of college students and asking them about their responses to Covid and. And, you know, just so many. The whole world was a laboratory, a study about stress during that time. And it really talked and showed about how so many people had headaches and digestive issues, Skin, skin acne and rashes, dizziness, so many different symptoms. And it wasn't just a few people.
It was so many, like, up 70% on some of these symptoms of fatigue. And, you know, it was just so.
We tend to think, oh, I'm just weak. If I'm having physical symptoms to stress, I'm. I'm just weak. I'm not dealing with my stress well, so I need to shut it down and do better. And Work harder, but that doesn't work. We need to really deal with it and learn to work through it or the body stays with those symptoms and they just increase. I really, really saw that with my own illness and I see that with, with clients all the time. That we can just have so much going on that we don't slow down to work through the emotions because it's hard, it's difficult.
And so.
[00:14:40] Speaker B: What kinds of things do you recommend to clients? Because you know, we all, like you said, we all have these things in our lives that are difficult and that are stressful.
And you know, I think there's, I mean like everything else, there's a continuum.
Some people, you know, struggled and have, you know, that they're doing lots of things, but it's difficult. And you know, people struggle with having the energy to make it through a busy day. But then you have all the way on the other side of the continuum of people who struggle just to get out of bed, as you were describing. And we want to meet people where they are and we want to validate everyone's experience and, and no one's pain is any greater or different or lesser than anyone else's.
But what kinds of things do you sort of recommend and suggest to, you know, be to feel incrementally better and more energetic?
[00:15:46] Speaker C: I usually start with compassionate awareness.
Just slowing down to have the awareness of what am I feeling right now? And I use, excuse me, I use compassionate because so often when we slow down and okay, what am I feeling now? Oh, I'm angry. Oh, that's bad. Nope, nope, nope, not going to do that.
Because it, it's some of those emotions, they're very real but they feel uncomfortable or they may feel negative and we might feel self critical or judgmental. And so we, we shut them down because they're uncomfortable, move on to a different emotion and, and so those emotions stay underground.
But when we can approach them with compassion, being able to say, I'm feeling angry. Okay, okay, why am I feeling angry? Well, you know, he really, that, that, that cashier was really rude and yeah, I am feeling angry that he said that to me. You know what? That's okay. It's okay.
And you know what? That's, that's his thing.
And I can, you know, whatever, I can, I can work through it. I can forgive him. I can. Maybe it brings up a memory of something my dad said to me that I never forgave or whatever the reason of the anger, being able to sit with it with compassion and work through it.
[00:17:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's really, that's really important because even with all of the sort of negative vibes and energy and negative things that we get from other people, I think most of us are our own worst critic. Right. Like, we tend to beat ourselves up more than anyone else. And that it sounds to me like breaking cycles of negativity is something that you're really sort of describing and advocating.
[00:18:08] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. And even to look at those cycles, not even so much as negativity, but to look at those as old wired patterns that were keeping us safe, maybe that's our childhood. Maybe we developed these patterns of not dealing with emotions because we didn't know how, we didn't have the ability to deal with them. Maybe our parents never taught us, maybe they never were taught. And so maybe we didn't have the ability back then. But when those emotions or those patterns start coming up, being able to say, you know what, I can change that pattern now, I can sit with it and change it if it's no longer what I want.
And so rather than calling it negative, then it can, it can again lead to that judgment and then that avoidance of working through it, but rather seeing it as, you know what, I've grown out of that now and I want to change that pattern because all those patterns began at some point in a, as a way to be helpful to us. It's just they're not helpful anymore.
[00:19:22] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's great. That's a really important distinction that I don't think I would have made in my own mind. It's not a pattern of negativity so much as it is a pattern of judgment.
And you know, even using a term like negativity feels judgmental now in this kind of conversation because there's a lot of, I suppose there's a lot of self protection involved. Right.
When we're up against stressors or you know, difficult situations that we've become accustomed to or that, or brand new ones. You know, sometimes our, our mind and our body and our spirit protects us by saying, oh, can't, don't want to do that.
[00:20:10] Speaker C: Yeah. And our culture can keep that going. You know, for, for women, anger is not an acceptable emotion.
For men, it's more acceptable.
For men, sadness, gentleness, softness is not as acceptable, whereas for women it is. So our culture kind of defines what's acceptable in a lot of situations. Whereas when we can have that compassionate awareness, it just is no judgment, it just is. And now I can work through and deal with it in a way that works for me so that I can move forward in the direction I want to go.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: So speaking of sort of cultural judgments and things like that, you know, I.
I feel like back in the old days when I would hear about people with chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia or even multiple chemical sensitivities, there's often a connection to that of it's all in your head.
And, you know, going to doctors and doctors, not having a sort of real diagnosis that is specific of things that are causing it or things that can treat it, and therefore, it's all in your head, seems like a very dismissive kind of backhanded kind of statement, because then it's sort of almost blaming the person who's experiencing it or saying that it's not real or that it's fake.
That seems really unhelpful and demoralizing.
[00:22:07] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Demoralizing is a really good word.
When I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome, it had the. The nickname of the yuppie flu.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:22:20] Speaker C: And. Yeah. Incredibly demoralizing.
And again, the mind and the body are incredibly connected.
So when our mind goes through a stressful period, and that stress can be anything from being involved in a car accident, it can be going through an illness. It can be stress at work or a sick child. So not getting a lot of sleep, we can go through a stress.
And it actually changes a lot of the chemicals going on in our body.
We are releasing adrenaline, we're releasing cortisol. The body is now focused on got to get through this situation.
And so then during that stress, the body is not able to focus on just the basic functions that a body does. Good digestion, detox. Just the regular repair that the body goes through day to day because it's so focused on whatever is causing that stress.
And it's kind of like a fire alarm going off. When you've got a fire alarm going off in the kitchen, not a good time to be vacuuming in the living room. You drop everything and you go and take care of the fire.
Well, maybe there's not a real fire. Maybe it was just a little smoke coming from the toaster.
[00:23:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:55] Speaker C: Or maybe there was a real fire and you put it out, the fire alarm is still going.
[00:24:00] Speaker B: Or maybe the smoke alarm is, like 8 or 10ft up on the ceiling, and I can't reach it, and the thing is just going off, and I have to find the step stool, and I gotta climb up there and turn the thing off. And then I pull the battery out and it's still going.
[00:24:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:15] Speaker B: You know, from the inexplicable reasons that I don't understand because the laws of physics say it should stop when I pull the battery out. But who knew that it was actually connected to the electricity of the house? I don't know. I'm just making this up, obviously, but.
[00:24:31] Speaker C: Yeah, but it's so true. It goes off in, in our, in our brain and then it continues to send those stress chemicals into the body and then the body responds. And so then it, it goes from a stress response, usually pretty legitimate to start off with. Then it's gotten into the body and the body has these patterns now and it can get stuck in that pattern of the smoke alarm just going off and we can't figure out why.
[00:25:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:06] Speaker C: And so then. And again, many of us have not learned because our parents didn't know how to teach us how to deal with some of those stress response. We live in a really stressful culture. We don't, you know, like a couple of generations ago, we don't go out for an hour walk after dinner. We don't spend time around the dinner table just relaxing.
We don't spend time out in nature like we used to.
And so we can get stuck in that stress pattern, not just from the original stressor, but now it's taken on a life of its own.
And so then we have maybe pain or IBS or multiple chemical sensitivities. And then we have this spiral going. The mind is sending messages to the body. Well, now the body's not feeling good and it's sending stress messages up to the brain. Hey, things aren't working well. This isn't good.
And so then the brain becomes even more stressed and then sending more messages to the body. So we end up in this loop.
And then the body, all of the body's energy and resources are going to try and figure out what's going on and, and do deal with this, this stress response.
And we have very little energy left for living life. So then it's. When you're, you then wake up in the morning and it's like, wow, hit the snooze button five times. I just can't get out of bed because the body doesn't have the energy to get going because it's been so focused on this fight or flight response to stress.
[00:26:56] Speaker B: And you, and it's, and it builds up and you're losing a couple steps each time. And you know, you're that much more tired the next day because you were tired the previous day and you were up late. And now you're getting laid out of bed and then you're, you're stuck for the next day. It's all a self building pattern. So it sort of brings to my mind the question, how do you break that pattern? You know, how do you break out of it? What, how can we get that smoke alarm to stop going off and stop being even afraid that the smoke alarm is going to go off? Because a lot of it has to do with walking around with the sense that you're. Another analogy is walking on eggshells. Or, you know, you just sort of expect things to go wrong.
So what can we do? How can we rewire our brain? How can we get some, some new pathways going?
[00:28:03] Speaker C: So one of my favorite tools is just set aside some time first thing in the morning because we can be in this habit of waking up, oh, no, I'm tired, it's going to be a crappy day again.
I got to get this done, I got to get that done.
But to catch those thoughts and be able to say, no, wait a minute, wait a minute, I got some good stuff going today. And you know what, there are some good things I can actually decide to do today.
And being able to recognize compassionate awareness, those thoughts that are going through our mind because those thoughts are keeping that body in that stress response. So when we can take a few minutes in the morning and say, okay, just kind of relax, take some breaths. How am I doing right now? What do I need?
And you know, emotionally, yeah, I'm feeling a little bit stressed. You know, maybe some journaling would be good right now.
How am I doing physically?
Yeah, just kind of, you know, a nice, a nice, maybe a yoga class or some stretching for my body would feel really good today.
How am I doing mentally? Yeah, I'm thinking a lot about the stress of the day and it's going to be a crappy day.
You know what, it's gonna be a really good day because I get to see my friend. So and so today. Or you know what, I can decide to have coffee with my friend today after work and then just being able to recognize again how am I doing in my connections, my relationships.
Because we're wired for connection.
And when we get in this stressed mode a lot of times, connection is one of the first things to go.
Don't have time to have coffee with my friend or to have that phone call or to sit and have a quiet dinner with someone.
And because we come from evolutionary, we have developed where we have safety in groups, in connection.
So when we can build connection more into our day, it can help to bring down that stress response.
So just really taking some time, Even if it's 10 minutes every morning, and just have that compassionate awareness of how am I feeling, how are my thoughts, what are some ways that I can really make, make today be a great day? So where can I find joy in my day? Today can be a really great first place to start with that process.
[00:31:03] Speaker B: Yes.
And I've seen, I've noticed that you have some really great videos on your YouTube channel with a lot of meditations and some content that is sort of teaching the background about the kind of things we've been talking about, but also sort of day to day practical kind of meditations that people can enjoy.
Why don't you talk a little bit more about, you know, guided meditations and sort of how that can be helpful because you know, we don't, especially if we're sort of just starting to be sort of mindful of what is happening within us, we don't really know necessarily how to do this or how to, how to direct our thoughts.
How. What are some of the, the useful meditations that, that we can use?
[00:32:04] Speaker C: Meditations are great.
They, you know, I know a lot of times people think, oh, that's Eastern religion, but it's not. These are just regular meditations with no spiritual.
There are meditations if you do have spiritual beliefs and want to add that. But meditation just from a straight meditation perspective can be incredibly healing. And a lot of times people think, oh, I need to jump into this 20 minute meditation.
And it's like, oh, that just didn't work for me.
But we want to be able to really start small. And starting with, I have a really nice five minute guided meditation on my YouTube channel, which is a great place to start. And it's just practicing being still. There's a focus on feeling your breath.
And what's going to happen is that our brain, because it's used to being so busy, is going to jump in with thoughts. And that's perfectly normal. The idea is, is to recognize our thoughts and then to just let go of them. And this takes practice. And so that's why a short 5 minute meditation is a good place to start. If that doesn't work and is just, just not working, do a minute.
Because again, it is that practice of instead of letting those thoughts control us and take over, being able to set them aside for a moment so that we can just have a few minutes of quiet and let the brain have those moments of quiet.
And it really is a practice.
And I Find I've been meditating for years, but I will still find. I will go to have my meditation time and my thoughts can be all over the place.
And some days it's more so than others. And again, that's normal. That's the practice of being able to work with wherever we're at from a place of compassionate awareness and allowing that brain to just kind of empty all of that stuff for a few minutes so that we can find some peace.
[00:34:33] Speaker B: Yes.
So as we, as we're starting to wrap up here today, what are some things that you really want people to know?
What do you hope that people would really walk away from this conversation with?
[00:34:52] Speaker C: I think just the whole idea of compassion.
You know, we really are, we can be so, so hard on ourselves.
And beginning with that compassionate awareness, I teach in my book, I teach about compassionate self coaching, which starts with compassionate awareness. How am I doing right now?
And just being able to be with that.
And then the next part is then self coaching.
Where do I want to be? What do I want today or next week or in the next five years? Just having that awareness that I don't have to stay stuck here. Where am I heading? And then self care.
What are the ways I can take care of myself today in order to move towards where I want to be?
And it can be very powerful because it is coming from that place of, of self love and self care.
Think about how we would treat a child or. I remember when I first started doing this work and listening to the way I talk to myself.
I was, it was so bad. It was like I was constantly, you are so stupid. You are such an idiot. And that was what was going on in my mind all the time. And I had not even been aware of it until I started this work. And if we had, think about, if we had somebody, if we had a boss behind us all day at work yelling those things at us, we'd be a stressed out mess.
But yet it was coming from my own head.
And so just that that compassionate awareness is so, so key to this whole process of being able to let go of that fatigue that weighs us down and be able to live a life with, with joy and contentment and connection.
[00:36:58] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and makes sense that we ought to be able to give ourselves at least a measure of the compassion that we naturally give to others.
And you know, I, I, I would imagine that most folks who are listening to this would not treat other people that way.
And so why should we treat ourselves any worse than we treat others? Yeah, you know, I get it that everyone is their own biggest critic. And maybe that's good in terms of helping you to, you know, have good standards and achieve things. But to the scent, to the extent that it like gets to berating ourselves.
No, counterproductive. I think you have such a great point there.
[00:37:52] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I, I actually learned quite a lot from. We live in the country and we have feral cats and we like to make friends with our feral cats and rather than just let them run wild. And I remember this one, one little girl, her name was Luna and terrified, would not come and eat if there was a person anywhere near the food. And. And just how did I treat her? Well, I was very gentle with her. I would talk gently to her, I would speak kindly to her. I wouldn't run up and yell at her and just being able to gently draw her out until it got to the point where she would sit there and meow at me every night, demanding I would come out and pet her and say goodnight.
[00:38:36] Speaker B: Huh.
[00:38:37] Speaker C: And just how motivating it was to her to be treated with love and gentleness and kindness. We treat our children or we want to treat our children that way. Sometimes it's hard. We're parenting is hard. We want to treat our children that way, with kind, with love and with kindness. And it's so much more motivating than with yelling and screaming.
[00:39:01] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:39:01] Speaker C: How much more so with ourselves.
[00:39:09] Speaker B: Well, Lori, I so appreciate this conversation that we have. I, I so appreciate the work that you do. And you know, there's.
I think everyone sort of deals with this to some extent and I think many, many people have great difficulty with having the energy, the vigor, the vitality to deal with what life throws at us and whether, you know, it's to the extent that we're not able to function or whether it's still just. We're not functioning nearly as well as we like to be.
I really thought that your messages, your content, your work that I've seen really speaks to that and can really be helpful. So where can people learn more? Where can they get in touch with you? Where can they find your YouTube channel and your website?
[00:40:19] Speaker C: My website is Lori Clemens.
L O R I C L E M M O N S My YouTube channel is Lori Clemens and I, I appreciate you recognizing the YouTube channel. I have a lot, a lot of free content on my YouTube channel, so. So I really love directing people to that for information and I have a book, rewire your Wellness that goes into a lot of these different techniques and tools in how to rewire those old patterns. That smoke alarm that's gotten stuck.
[00:41:05] Speaker B: Can you tell I've got my own smoke alarm issues?
[00:41:08] Speaker C: Yes, it sounds like you have quite the smoke alarm drama going on at your house.
But it's such a great analogy because our, our brain and our body just get stuck in that old pattern. And in the same way you've had to figure out how to get the thing to turn off.
We need to learn. It's not something that we were taught in our culture. We're just not taught because our parents never learned it and their parents maybe never learned it. And so once we can learn these tools, then we're able to calm that reaction. And boy, the energy comes back, that vitality comes back, and the joy. And it just. It changes everything.
[00:41:57] Speaker B: Yes, indeed, there is hope. Thank you so much.
[00:42:01] Speaker C: You are so welcome.
[00:42:04] Speaker B: Where to Go from here visit whatsworthwhile.net.
[00:42:07] Speaker A: To learn more about About Me, Ramsey Zimmerman and please reach out to me.
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