What to do When it's Not Working with Courtney Cowie

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:11] Speaker B: What'S worthwhile healing Mind, body and spirit. I'm Ramsey Zimmerman. I choose peace of mind, vitality of body, and joy of spirit over stress, exhaustion, or overwhelm. Together, let's explore and pursue the many ways to build holistic health and wellness. [00:00:30] Speaker A: I think even now, I'm always coming at health, chronic health issues from the standpoint of, yes, the physical body is always a piece of this and then complimentary to that, helping clients adjust their lifestyle. But it can even go deeper than that, too. I mean, there can be patterns of thought and experiences that people have gone through that have, you know, been on the level of trauma. Right. That isn't necessarily something that we would dive deep into, but I think bringing that awareness into the work I do gives me, I think, a lot more extensive framework for suggest or say, you know, do you feel like there could be some other deeper elements that go beyond just like diet and nutrition? You know, we've made some positive changes, but is it possible you've had some experiences in the past that could be contributing? [00:01:25] Speaker B: Hey there. It's Ramsey here. That was Courtney Cowie. Courtney is a functional diagnostic nutritional therapy practitioner. She also has a much wider view on holistic health beyond food, stress and sleep. As a young person, she had chronic belly aches and only found relief after visiting a doctor of traditional Chinese medicine. Today, she often uses that lens when working with clients. We had a great discussion about what might be holding someone back from reaching their health goals and when it feels like they are doing all the stuff but things still aren't working. If that's you and you feel like things aren't clicking yet, maybe there are missing pieces in the mind, body and spirit balance that still need to be addressed. Let's start talking it through. Hey, Courtney. How's it going today? [00:02:14] Speaker A: Not too bad. How are you, Ramsey? [00:02:16] Speaker B: I'm doing pretty well. Looking forward to talking today. I think the theme is going to be something like, what do you do when it seems like nothing is really working? So a little bit of background. You are a nutritional therapy practitioner. You graduated from the same program that I'm in, but you did that a while ago. You have lots of experience with that and also additional training and experience in digestion and traditional Chinese medicine and bodywork. And this is all very personal for you, too, because you had digestive troubles and issues as a child and growing up and as a young adult. What was that like for you growing up? [00:03:08] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, when I told this story, thinking back, honestly, I think as a child, I didn't really think of anything as, like, really wrong. You know, it was common for me to have a lot of stomach aches. You know, I don't know if it was maybe once a week, but I'm sure there were weeks where I was fine, too. I remember them being most pronounced, like, somewhere around late elementary, junior high school years. Right. So it wasn't uncommon for me to, like, I would walk to school with my brothers both there and back. And so at the end of the day especially, I'd walk home and often be struggling with a lot of stomach discomfort. And I could. I could kind of push through that if it would happen at school, just wait until I got home. But the very first thing I'd always want to do when I get home is, like, lay down on the couch or lay down on my bed with, like, a pillow under my stomach. And that pressure of the pillow for about 20, 30 minutes would. Would kind of release that, and then I would feel a lot better. And I kind of get up and, you know, go about my day. And I remember, like, I was really active, and my parents had some YMCA activities. And the two sports I gravitated towards were soccer and swim team. And for both of those, it was kind of a regular, ongoing problem where I would get these stomach aches. And sometimes I could still perform, but when I had the ability to just lay down and put pressure on my stomach, I would do that, like, at the games or at the school gyms where the swimmies are being held. And so I think it was really just normalized for me, like, as a kid, like, my parents didn't, you know, think anything was seriously wrong. They definitely were the types of parents where, for the most part, if it was a minor cold or flu, like, you don't really go to the doctor. You just kind of wait it out and do the normal things. Right. And otherwise, besides that, I was pretty healthy otherwise, like, very active, pretty normal childhood in that regard. So it wasn't really until, like, got older and I started to have more degree of breakdown. And for me, that looked like, you know, bowel issues especially, you know, where my system was going was more in the direction of, like, frequent bowel movements and lots of, like, loose stool and that kind of thing. The stomach aches and cramping still happened into, I would say, into my 20s and less into my 30s. It kind of got better and better as I aged, but then the bowel stuff showed up. And so that kind of presented this deeper layer of that problem than Ramsey. [00:05:32] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, it's kind of a. It's interesting what we sort of normalize, what we always feel like is kind of normal. Well, you know, I just always have a tummy ache when I get home from school. You know, doesn't everybody? But then, you know, in some ways that sort of sets the pace. But you also seem like you didn't really let that hold you back because you were still, you know, playing sports all the time. But where. So, but then you, at some point you realized, at some point it got worse. At some point it was more than you could take. At some point you realized that there was in fact a real problem. What. What point was that? And at what point did you, you know, take yourself to the doctors? [00:06:17] Speaker A: Yeah, so that's a really great question. I think when things really started to get to a place where I was like, okay, this is beyond just an intermittent thing now. It's kind of becoming almost my everyday norm. And it's a problem. I remember it really getting pronounced like when I was actually studying abroad in Japan in graduate school. So I was in my late 20s at that time, and not the most convenient time for that type of situation to be rearing its ugly head. You know, you're in a foreign country. I had been over there many times even as an undergraduate, so I was pretty comfortable in the culture. I had a good command of the language. But honestly, Ramsey, like, I wasn't even in America. I don't typically go to the doctor a lot. So, you know, my first instinct wasn't like, let me go to the Japanese hospital and see what to do about this. But just maybe coincidentally or serendipitously, I had this good friend who was Japanese who had kind of a hobby interest in essentially Chinese medicine, but specifically using like traditional Japanese foods to support energy flow and you know, basically self healing of the body. And so when we would hang out and she loved to have dinner parties and just like host people, and she was very social, so she'd have me over a lot just to like sleep over and hang out and eat at her house. And she was always telling me all these little like factoids about Chinese medicine. And she's using this food to support this function. And so I started to get a little immersed in that way of thinking. And you know, I was like, oh, this is so interesting. Like, this is actually like kind of cool. You know, I would be really interested in learning more about this. And around the time I was having a lot of GI stuff, the thing that kind of pushed me actually over the edge Was I was simultaneously working a part time job at this busy Spanish food restaurant, like, in downtown Tokyo. And the shift that the owner wanted to hire for was like the graveyard shift. It was like the third shift. And I thought, well, I'll give it a go. I've never done this before, right? And I was maybe two months into this job. I mean, pretty. Pretty immediately after I started the job, I noticed I was not feeling great. I couldn't put my finger on it, but I got about two months into that job. One of the scariest things that honestly has ever happened to me. I remember waking up and I would wake up around noon, which was again, not the norm for me, lifelong. And I went to stand up and I had heard my cell phone go off in my, my room, and I went to reach for it and I passed out. Like, I just blacked out. I had never had that experience before. I woke up. Like, I had chipped a tooth. And so I think that was kind of the turning point where I was like, okay, I'm gonna be over in this country for a while, and this is concerning. And I trust my friend Izumi. I'm just gonna ask her what she thinks. And right away she was like, you need to go see this Chinese herbalist lady I personally see. She's amazing. She's gonna help you. I'll go to the appointment with you, right? So, like, we don't make this appointment. And the three of us are sitting there and it was so interesting. Ramsey, we're all speaking Japanese. This woman is like full blown Chinese. I'm full blown. We call, like my Japanese friend there, she's asking me, yeah, go ahead. [00:09:26] Speaker B: Hold on. Just hold on a second. Just hold on a second. So you're thrown off in every possible way, right? You're. You're American. You're. You're. You went to Japan, which is like a completely different time zone, right? And then you decided, well, I may as well. While I'm here in a completely different time zone, I may as well do the night shift, right? I can, like, almost get back to my, like, American time zone. Like, is that. Is that how that worked? Like, you never even figure out, like, what day is it? Like, what, what is it the same day? Is it the next day? Have I, like, wounded all the way back or my entire day forward? So then, you know, you're all right. So then you go to the doctor, but you're going to the doctor in Japan, but it's not a Japanese doctor, it's a Chinese doctor in Japan. So you didn't actually go to. Or did you sort of get any Western medicine perspectives first or you just went to this straight to the Chinese Japane. [00:10:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I went straight to the Chinese herbalist, essentially. She was like a doctor of herbal medicine from China. And. Yeah, well, I don't know why I wasn't worried enough to go to a regular MD Maybe it was just too intimidating. And maybe I just had so much trust and faith in my friend. I trusted whatever her guidance was at that point in time. She was like a mom figure. Ramsay. She was a little bit older than me, too, so. Yeah, but you're right. Like, I just kind of was like, yeah, sure, let's go check this lady out. I'm okay. I'm good with that. Right? [00:11:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So you went from it's normal to have a tummy ache, but I'm gonna compete in my swim meet anyways to let's go to Japan and get Chinese herbalist medicine. Because I just blacked out and, you know, hit my. Hit my tooth on the floor or whatever. And now. All right, so we're all caught up. We can. We can continue the story now. So. So what did the. What did the doctor tell you? What was that like? [00:11:28] Speaker A: Yeah, it was really fascinating. So she was asking me a lot of questions, and I was having this sense as we were dialoguing that it was almost like she could anticipate what the answer coming out of my mouth was. And that was kind of freaking me out because I'm like, how does she know how I'm answering these questions almost in advance of me answering them? And the questions she was asking felt like they were deeper questions, like more complex questions, like questions that got a little bit deeper into, like, who I am as a person, like, how my habits are, how my thinking is very, very different. Felt sense compared to going to, like, a Western doctor. And they're there with their computer and it's like the same question all the time. And, you know, they're not really interested in talking about things other than the very specific thing you're going there for. Right. And they certainly aren't as interested in trying to troubleshoot what the true root causes. But, like, her questions were just so different, and I had never experienced that before. And the thing that really, like, blew me was when we got towards the end of the consultation, she was like, okay, I'm going to give you an analogy for what's going on with your body from a Chinese medicine perspective. The other piece of this equation, I sort of left out that I'll just add in right here was I had been a very, like, intense athlete and even did, like, college, like, weight rowing. This was like, several years prior. And during that time I had completely lost my menstrual cycle and I had never really regained it back. Even though, like, I didn't do that kind of intense training at that level anymore. My body had never really found its, like, rhythm again. And so she had asked about all of this, even though it wasn't related to the. The loose stool issue I was having. And so she's like, if you can imagine your body being like a season, it's essentially frozen over right now, like winter. And that's why you're not having this cycle. That's why, like, there's stuckness and energy. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you some herbal formulas that are going to, like, soften and warm and create that flow again. And I was just like, oh, that is so interesting. I'm like, in some ways, that kind of makes some sense to me. You know, like, that explanation seemed to get a lot more intuitively to that level of like, okay, like, even though that doesn't really get at what are the organs doing per se as a system, as a whole, that analogy really, like, resonated with me. And I was like, okay, this is, this is interesting. So she gave me these, like, two formulas. They were, you know, a lot of times in Chinese herbal medicine, they'll give you kind of like these. These dry, processed herbs that are instant granules, if you will. All you have to do is add hot water. It mixes up really easy, and you make it. You drink it like a tea. And so I was supposed to do that twice a day. Went home. I think within like, three to four weeks, my cycle came back on its own. It hadn't for years. And I was just, like, amazed. I couldn't. I couldn't comprehend how this was working. I was like, wow. Like, back in the day, the only solution doctors had for me was to go on birth control pill and eventually got tired of that. So, like, it actually, interestingly, had the most profound effect on the reproductive symptoms I had been having. And then the GI stuff was a little bit better, right? Like, there was some improvement, but this is kind of the beginning of the long complexity of, you know, just the struggle. I went on after that, but it wouldn't, it wouldn't, Wouldn't ever fully resolve. But the, the menstrual stuff got, like, immediately better. And as long As I took those herbs, I, you know, was regular, things were functioning really well. And then eventually, once I got back to the United States and I went off the formula, that was shortly, kind of thereafter, where I started my nutrition therapy training and really revamped how I was eating in a lot of ways. And then that diet change really supported kind of just. Just keeping good, like reproductive health, you know, long term. I've never had that issue ever since. Right. So I can say that's a testament to just, you know, what we learned going through that program in terms of, like, the importance of eating real foods and, you know, finding out what foods work well for your body and which don't. Right. So. So anyhow, that was. That was kind of the. The whole empty entry point into, I guess you could say, holistic medicine, functional medicine as a sense. But I came in it through that Chinese medicine angle, believe it or not. [00:15:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And does that continue to sort of. Does that continue to sort of frame up how you think about health and about nutrition and about how being. Well, you know, because it there. That sort of has a lot of things built into it. There's a lot of pieces, you know, what are kind of all the pieces that go through because it's, you know, it's not just what you eat and, you know, what medicine you take. There's lots of other things to it. So what are all the pieces that go into health and wellness in your mind in terms of working with clients? [00:16:29] Speaker A: Yeah, that's such a great question. And I think to answer kind of the first question you asked, like, does it still influence how I practice and think as a. As a functionally trained nutritionist? 100%. You know, the thing I really appreciated about Chinese medicine, and I can say this is true for a lot of the Eastern systems, Ayurveda, you know, yoga kind of comes out of that Indian culture. To me, they definitely have a very holistic view of the interconnectedness of energy with physical health, and they have a gamut of tools to use to try to restore that balance. And the thing that I think really just made so much sense to me is that you can't take a body part and separate it out from the rest of the whole. Right. And so in Western medicine, we've gotten really much to this place where everybody is very specialized and everybody goes to see a specialist if they're having GI problems. You see a GI doc, if you're having, you know, urinary problems, you go to like a, you know, urologist. Right. Like, to me, There's a time and place for that. But, you know, normally when people get out of whack in a chronic sense, there's going to be maybe that presenting system that's dysfunctional. But if you start to dig a little deeper, and you probably know this just through the training you're going through right now, Ramsay, like, you'll actually find that there's other systems that are almost always at play too, that are not optimal. Right. Like, and we use, you know, like, for example, we can do like, nutritional assessments and look at these foundations of health and see where people are landing in terms of, you know, what their priority is to focus on these different areas. And so I think even now, I'm always coming at health, chronic health issues from the standpoint of, yes, the physical body is always a piece of this. This has always got to be like the foundational piece we want to support. And that's, that's our wheelhouse. Right. Like working with restoring health to the organs, the bodies, the tissues with nutrient dense food. And then complimentary to that, helping clients adjust their lifestyle. Maybe it's making new, you know, habit changes around sleep or stress reduction or those types of, you know, tools that can be employed to kind of help balance the nervous system or balance kind of like the overall just state of stress that most people are living in. But it can even go deeper than the that, too. I mean, there can be patterns of thought and experiences that people have gone through that have, you know, been on the level of trauma. Right. That isn't necessarily something that we would dive deep into, but I think bringing that awareness into the work I do gives me, I think, a lot more extensive framework for not only having these, these dialogues with clients, and if we're hitting roadblocks or they're presenting in a more complex way, being able to at least, you know, suggest or say, you know, do you feel like there could be some other deeper elements that go beyond just like diet and nutrition? You know, we've made some positive changes. But is it possible you've had some experiences in the past that could be contributing? Right. [00:19:44] Speaker B: So, yeah, because it doesn't, it doesn't always work the first time, you know, in the sense of, like, sometimes people get frustrated. They sort of feel like they're hitting a wall. Like, I'm, I'm doing all the stuff, right? [00:19:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:59] Speaker B: You know, I've been eating better, I've been some sleep. I feel like I'm, I'm getting some exercise, but, you know, I'm, I'm not losing the weight, I'm not feeling better. Like, like things are not really clicking yet. You know, what do you do with folks like that who are starting to get frustrated and started to, you know, get discouraged and wondering if this is going to be, you know, yet another attempt that just didn't go where they wanted? [00:20:29] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. So every person's a little different. And I will say that when people are hitting roadblocks, sometimes it depends on kind of how they're approaching the conversation around that specific roadblock. But, you know, from my coaching training, the way I try to approach it is asking some curious and exploring questions and trying to mine a little bit for the winds that are typically there, but they're hidden deeper beneath those, like, bigger frustrations. So just to give you a perfect example, like, you know, I was just wrapping up with a client who's got a very specific autoimmune disease that she, and that was her big goal is to like, see some major improvement in those symptoms. She, I think her big goal was shooting for remission if possible, right through a holistic, nutrition centered, centric approach. And, and she did things very well. Right. Like, I, I definitely don't think the barrier was that she wasn' compliant and the steps we talked about, I know she made a lot of great changes. However, she also acknowledged historically there's some like, life complexities that had happened to her over her lifetime. Right. That she felt intuitively played a role. And so as you know, we were working through that conversation of frustration. Though it was interesting she was able to acknowledge is like, you know, though my digestive system is actually so good right now, like, I'm so regular, I'm not bloated anymore. And just spontaneously she just started producing that Ramsey. And I was like, oh, so what I'm hearing you say is like, there actually have been some positives. Like you've noticed improvements. Even though this big goal we've been shooting for hasn't exactly turned out the way you want. I was like, oh, yeah, absolutely. And so I think sometimes it's just human tendency. We tend to fixate on not getting the close to perfect outcome. And you know, the way I've heard it said too is sometimes the system that's the most, you know, problematic and the longest standing problem can sometimes be the slowest to heal. And what we will often experience are these little wins leading up to that, but we, we downplay them because they don't feel as significant compared to that big win we're shooting for. So certainly that can be a piece of it where, you know, the win can be there, but it's not necessarily being perceived in this way. That's like the target that we were originally shooting for. Right? [00:22:51] Speaker B: Because you have this like one big expectation that you're trying to get to and you're frustrated that you haven't gotten there yet. But maybe, maybe you're actually making some progress. And, you know, those, those smaller wins need to be acknowledged. And that is, you know, that builds momentum and, you know, being grateful for the, the wins that we do have, you know, that sort of puts us in the right frame of mind in order to, you know, achieve our goals. And how important do you think that is? Like, mind frame, being in the right frame of mind in, in order to sort of accomplish these goals, is that pretty important? [00:23:35] Speaker A: I think it's like almost everything, Ramsey. I would say, you know, like, it's, it's not to say that clients can't express frustration or express the setbacks they're feeling. I mean, all of us have that experience, right? I mean, I've had that experience in my health as well. But I think kind of the deeper question that I always try to get at with, with my clients if they're in that position is, you know, if you were, let's just say theoretically, you never hit the mark. You never got to this big goal. Are the changes that you've made to date worthwhile enough that it makes sense to sustain them? Like, do you enjoy the process of the person you're becoming? Right. Like, do you enjoy whether it's you're the mom of the family and you're role modeling to your children how to have a healthy diet for life. Right. Whether you're showing people what it's like to engage in self care, whether you're having more peace and joy in your life because you've made some positive changes to take care of your own health in a way that you didn't before you started this process of working with me? Right. Like, those little things inherently should hold value in an of themselves. And I find that, you know, often where we kind of lose the sense of where we're going is like, we're so hyper focused on the end goal that we're not actually taking stock of. Like, is the process in it, in and of itself a worthwhile journey? Right. And so, you know, I think, you know, when you and I were talking earlier, you know, the other day ago, like, we were kind of talking about how health isn't an identity change on some level. And I think that, you know, people, whether they realize they're kind of opting into that or not, like to reach that future healthy version of you. You're going to go through a series of steps and changes, inevitably that'll put you in this new state. And even if you never get there, you're on the way there and it's the person you're kind of constantly becoming that that process ultimately should hold some kind of meaning. Right. [00:25:39] Speaker B: And is there a sort of spiritual component to that too? And you know what. But kind of how do you think that a person's faith or beliefs sort of play into that? [00:25:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I definitely think people that would acknowledge they have some sort of spiritual awareness or faith. Right. Or religious viewpoint that they subscribe to inherently tend to be a little bit more open to having that introspection and to trying to keep a little bit higher context in, in mind as they're going through this journey. You know, they're able to, from what I've seen, reflect a little bit and take a step back and, and sort of acknowledge like, you know, a part of me, even though is very frustrated with where I'm at with my health, also can give myself compassion and grace or also can recognize that there's been this win. They're able to kind of hold that duality a little bit better, if that makes sense. Right. And, and maybe what I've found is this theme of when people have a little bit of more of that developed spiritual awareness or nature to them, I just think it gives them greater endurance to stay the course. And they're not as fixated on this short term confined health journey process, which typically isn't the way it looks anyhow. They're more committed and they're more willing to tolerate the challenges and the setbacks knowing that this is part of a great process. And they're even able to reframe those things and say, you know what, Even though this feels really hard, what I'm going through or what I went through, this is, this is teaching me a lesson that's necessary in the overall journey. Like this is probably meaningful in the overall piece of where I'm going. And it's necessary that I went through this experience to get to the next place, even if I can't see that yet. Right. Like, I have to trust that that's, that's a part of this. Right. Like there's a little bit more of that, that ability to not over identify with the frustration and the limitations of where they're at. [00:27:48] Speaker B: Yeah, frustrations Limitations, setbacks, hitting a wall, you know, all different ways of describing the experience of not getting where we want to get. But then it's also, it's. It. It's a matter of not having gotten there yet, right? Because, you know, if you're sort of doing all the things, but you feel like it's not working, I think maybe it's just not doing as much as fast as what you would have liked on the one hand, and doing all the things to make yourself healthy. I mean, if we're talking about eating well and getting better sleep and, you know, taking time to get exercise and movement and pursue your interests and trying to, you know, deal with the stress of life that you have, whatever that might look like, all of those things are all the right things. And even if you feel like you're not reaching your goals, I think inserting the word yet is really important because, you know, what's the worst that could happen if you continue to do all of those really good, healthy habits in your life? You know, you're just doing all the great things, and, you know, those things are not. Those things are never going to hurt you. Right. It's just a matter of a question of, well, how far have we come? How fast have we gotten there and trying to sort of get to that place. And so if you're. If you're in the slog, if you're sort of pushing through it, how important is it that you understand why you're doing it in the first place? [00:29:38] Speaker A: I think it's super important, Ramsey. I mean, that's kind of the very first one on one session I do with all of my clients now, especially since I've become trained as a health coach, just because it's easy to lose sight of the forest for the trees, you start down this path, there's a lot of momentum and excitement in the beginning, a lot of hope, and just like, you know, this is going to be it. This is amazing. And not to say it definitely can be it, it often is very rewarding process for a majority of people. But you know, what I find is it's very easy to kind of get going down different tangents and rabbit holes and doing the work, too. And so I think having that conversation right up front and getting clear on, like, you know, what is that deeper? Usually it's an identity piece for people or a values piece or as like, priorities piece that it comes back to, like, their vision of who they want to become if they get this function back that they've lost, physically speaking, is Going to allow them to be a better, better mother or travel the world with their partner or, you know, there's some vision they can vividly paint for you if you start to dig deeper into that. And that's where I think people having a. A phrase or a vision that's literally like in front of them written out or maybe a picture that symbolizes that. Right. Like somewhere that they can actually go back to and get reminded on the regular as they're going on that journey is super important. And it's something that I will occasionally circle back to in the work and just ask the question, like, do you feel like the change we're talking about right now still aligns with where you want to go? And it's usually a very small piece of that process. Right. To get them there. But ultimately, when that's in resonance with who they want to be and where they're going, that. That takes the whole, like, you know, getting a result in a certain period of time, it takes a little bit of the pressure off of that because they have, like, typically a little bit more tangible. We can go back to kind of these tangible milestones or steps, the things they do have control over, and they can feel more confident about that. In generally, that's what I find the human brain needs to feel, you know, good and reaffirmed and moving forward in a change process. Right. Like when we can't have this immediate, like, reduction in symptoms, we can, we can at least focus goals on things that are going to be within our control and master those things bit by bit. Right. And that builds that confidence and it gives the brain that, well, like, if I do this enough, sooner or later that outcome is going to manifest. Right. Like, sooner or later I'm going to get there. And that's what people, I think, need to stay focused and committed in the long run. [00:32:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. And then. But then conventional wisdom would push back and say something to the effect of, well, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing, expecting a different outcome. So, okay, fine, conventional wisdom. So maybe there are some things missing. Right. Maybe there. Maybe there are some factors that you're missing. Maybe we do need to do some testing or try some different things. So how do you. How do you sort of mix it up with clients when they feel like they are sort of not getting all the right things? [00:33:06] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question, too. So. So in the work I do, I do run functional testing with the majority of my clients. So I've. And I do find that's a very valuable tool. And a lot of people get a lot of reaffirmation and seeing the data. They get back on their task and going through the process of having that conversation and clinically correlating the symptoms they've got with some of the imbalances we're finding on the testing. So that can definitely be a piece that gives them a little bit more peace of mind that, like, physically speaking, we're seeing some data points that would suggest these imbalances they're experiencing makes sense versus going to the doctor. Often they've had the experience of just having normal testing done, nothing wrong is found, and then they feel very dysfunctional. [00:33:51] Speaker B: Missed. [00:33:52] Speaker A: So. So that is definitely a tool that I use in the process of working with my clients. Normally where they. They feel they get stuck is if we've done the testing or we've done the nutritional change, we've done some lifestyle adjustments. Right. And they still feel like they're not seeing the tangible results and their symptom reduction that they're looking for. That's where, you know, I don't necessarily carry this stuff out, but I have a. An array of different resources and tools that I usually will open up to them and know, typically when you hit a wall, you know, with the physical body, which is primarily what we're supporting as, you know, functional nutritionists, we're trying to bolster the best function we can from the physical body standpoint. But we know that illness involves both the spiritual, mental, emotional, physical body. Right. Like, there's a whole person component into that. So, you know, and sometimes by this point, people already intuitively are like, yeah, I do think stress is playing a role here. Sometimes they'll say stress, sometimes they'll say, certain traumas I've had in the past, I was in a major car accident, and that created a trauma for me. It could be so many things. Ramsey. And that's where I'll say, you know, I've got some tools. I'll go ahead and, like, show those to you. And they're meant to kind of just like, give you a little bit of an introduction to different methods that have been shown to work really well to kind of get in and help help clients work on the mindset, emotional piece of things. And then what I like to do is just circle back and say, like, what resonates with you? Is there something here you want to explore where I can connect you with a more specific resource? And it's great to do it that way, because what will work for one person often isn't going to resonate as much with another. And so you can't cover the whole gamut, of course. Right. Like, as one person, I've picked up, you know, an array of like 8 to 10 things that I found really pretty good resources and tools for a lot of different people and I personally found value in. And typically there's at least one or two things where they're like, oh, yeah, this is so interesting. I want to explore this more. You know, I'm trained as a heart math practitioner, which is a very simple tool that teaches people how to kind of bring their body into what's called coherence, which is, you know, calming down the stress side of the nervous system, that sympathetic side of the nervous system, and kind of balancing their nervous system out. But it certainly isn't going to be the whole kit and caboodle if there's complex emotional things or stressors or traumas going on. And so I like to at least teach heart math to my clients and give them kind of a baseline way to regulate in the moment. But it usually then just becomes a conversation around, like, there could be some elements that might require some deeper work that's going to be outside the physical body here and just seeing if they're open to that or not. Right? [00:36:44] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and building on all that, you know, I think it's. Sometimes we go to the doctor and we have a big discussion and. Or maybe they do a bunch of tests and, you know, the test results come back and it's like, well, it's all within normal range, so there's nothing wrong with you. So then, okay, so just pause there for a second. So within normal range. Okay, normal range for who? Does that mean that that's optimal range? Or does that mean that that's just like, I'm not as bad as someone who's really bad, or bad's not the right word. But to someone who's really off balance or, you know, pretty far out on one side of the spectrum or another, that doesn't mean that it is where you want to be necessarily. That just means that you're not so far off that you have to immediately address it. And then. So then click play. So then you get to this notion of, well, there's nothing wrong with you. It must be all in your head. And then it's like, okay, next one. Yeah, pause again. That notion of, oh, it isn't real. It's not a thing, it's in your head. Like, okay, if it is in my head, it is real, because the things that are in your head are real and they need to be addressed and that they do have power. When given power, they, you know, the things that are in our mind, in our head, our thoughts, our beliefs, they impact our bodies, right? They impact what's going on physically. What is going on physically impacts how we think and what we. What we feel about stuff. And so those things are interconnected, and you do have to address all of them. So I guess that part of the message here is that if you're. If you're hitting a wall, if you're feeling frustrated, it might be because you're missing something. You know, from a physical, biochemical standpoint, that's possible. It's possible that you're having some kind of a mental, emotional block that has everything to do with past experiences and sort of where your mindse is and. And how, you know, you're thinking about things now. Or maybe how you are not thinking about things because you are trapped in limitations that you've had your whole life or as a result of some trauma, that's another possibility. Or maybe you're blocked somehow in your energy flows. And, you know, I'm not an expert on traditional Chinese medicine, but, you know, know, looking at the. Looking at that or other types of traditional practices that address how energy flows in the body, that might be something that you need to get. So I think the. I think the theme here, what I'm hearing from you, is that all of these things are interconnected and that we need to be kind of addressing them all. And if we are running into problems with. With one or all of them, they all need to be addressed. And sometimes it just takes time. [00:39:54] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's exactly it, Ramsay. I think always the question I'm wondering at the very beginning of working with any client is like, how hard are we going to get with the physical body? And my hope and my heart of hearts is always a hundred percent of the way there. Right. But in reality, almost always. And you know, in my practice specifically, I really target people with struggles around IBS and ibd because that was my personal health story. And that's what I have a heart for helping. Although I've worked with just about everything, you know, out there, but with the gut stuff, I will say there's almost always some degree of energy emotional blockage going on, and whether that goes back to one traumatic event, some sort of complex trauma situation where sometimes it was like nothing majorly wrong per se, but just a lot of ways of relating in that person's family of origin that set the Stage for some, you know, limiting beliefs and maladaptive thought patterns and thoughts about self that over time have compiled now and are playing a role in creating a big distortion in the energy field. And this is true stuff like what you're saying, Ramsey. Like, thoughts have the power to manifest as real things, right? Like this kind of like the, the realm of like quantum physics and, and you know, these very advanced physics studies now are kind of showing that, that a lot of these concepts like time and space really don't exist at this like, very high level. And so it really can get quite like esoteric. And trying to wrap your brain around that is insane. But there's always going to be an intermeshing of the two. And for any given person, it's just a question of how much energy and attention needs to be given to the foundational basics of supporting the physical body, which would be things like nutrition and lifestyle, right? Getting ready of pathogens if we find them in testing that type of thing, and how much time and energy needs to be devoted to that deeper exploration of, you know, psychological things. And the thing I wanted to say about you when you were speaking earlier that I think is also a delicate area, especially for people with IDS and abd, is a lot of them have legitimately been told by a provider at some point this is caused by stress. This is all in your head as a, as a, like, I'm writing you off tool, right? And it's nuanced because as you said, is there a mental, emotional, energetic piece to the illness? More than likely, yes, there is. But it's not as simple as just, well, de stress and you'll be fine again, right? Like it's, it sounds like a very, it's not that it sounds like this very simple dismissal, like this is because of unmanaged stress. Just leave my clinic and go figure out how to manage your stress and your IBS will go away. Rarely is it that simple in my experience. And you know, sometimes I'll even say it this way to people. Like, if it was just about stress stress, every person out there on the planet in the western world should be walking around with IBS then. So it is never, it's never that simplistic, but it's, it's kind of analogous to like, I've had a lot of clients that have struggled with like overweightedness and weight loss resistance say that their doctors have written them off similarly and said, well, if you just go lose weight, your knee pain will go away, right? Like, as if it's just A simple process. They're supposed to just go home and figure this out. And so that can create trauma too in, in the sense of just that, that, that practitioner, client or patient relationship and just not having that sensitivity to like, you know, these people might not even be aware that the context in which they grew up or some of the life experiences they've had have actually impacted them quite profoundly. A lot of this stuff could even be subconscious and it doesn't need to be addressed eventually for them to get full healing. Yes. But to, to find the right tool and method and go through that process that is actually, I would argue, a more complex endeavor than what we do as like nutritional therapists, you know, with the physical work of the physical body. So. [00:43:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, how do you work with clients? Do you work one on one? Do you work in groups? Do you, what kinds of services do you provide? And how can people learn more? How can they find you? [00:44:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I do one on one work. As of right now. That's kind of the, the spot I love the most because I get to really dive in and help people on a very personal level. The, the way that I work is over a four month context and I find that that gives us both enough time to lay the foundations of knowledge. They need time. They need to make some of these behavior and nutritional dietary changes over time. Right. In a sequence way to actually get them some tangible results. And so yeah, it's a combination of kind of one on one work. A lot of my clients actually live far away from me, so I work over zoom and do kind of like the telehealth one on one session thing. And then combined with that, I've created essentially like an online learning library program, if you will, that I take all of my clients through. And it's kind of meant to be supportive to our one on one sessions, which teaches them like, how do you go essentially from not knowing anything about how to eat to support your health, to knowing exactly what to do? And I always tell my clients like my goal is to kind of graduate you at the end of that period. Like I don't want you to be fully reliant the whole time on me and then feel like once we step away, you're dependent to go see somebody else to help you. Like I want you to be fully up to speed and know what to do so you can confidently walk into any grocery store, navigate any restaurant, make a safe and, you know, confident choice for yourself, and feel empowered that you have some degree of control over your symptoms and your health from a nutritional lifestyle standpoint. So yeah, so that's kind of how I work. [00:45:47] Speaker B: Yeah, that's great. And how can people find you online? [00:45:50] Speaker A: Best way is through my website, which is simple, just courtneycowie firstandlastname.com and if you are listening to this and you've got IBS or IBD symptoms and you're struggling with that, you're looking for a holistic nutrition centric approach to help reduce those symptoms. I've got a great E guide that's free. So if you go to the website, you'll just see a little clickable little tab that'll say E Guide and you can actually download that. And a lot of people have really enjoyed having that as a starting point. [00:46:20] Speaker B: Very good. Well, I've really enjoyed speaking with you today, so this was great. You know, there's no easy answers to sort of get all the way to where we need to get. But what is, what does make sense is to start doing the right things and figure out as many things as you can and to build some momentum and be grateful for how far we've come and continue on that journey. So thanks for, thanks for being with me today, Courtney, and yeah, really appreciate it. [00:46:57] Speaker A: Thank you, Ramsey. It was a pleasure. [00:47:00] Speaker B: Where to go from here? Visit whatsworthwhile.net learn more about me Ramsey Zimmerman and please reach out to me and let me know what you think. I don't want this podcast to be some message in a bottle thrown out to sea. I want to hear back from you. Please send me a message or an email or hit me up on X, LinkedIn or Instagram. And please leave a rating and review for the what's Worthwhile podcast on Apple, Spotify, Iheart or Amazon. [00:47:26] Speaker A: Thanks, Ram.