Daryl Murrow, Business Mindset

[00:00:11] Speaker A: What's worthwhile, worthy of our time, energy, belief, and action. I'm Ramsey Zimmerman. To me, it's building mind, body and spirit wellness towards peace of mind, vitality of body, and joy of spirit. Let's pursue these topics together to find holistic health and wellness. [00:00:32] Speaker B: It was a train wreck. When I think about it now, going into it, it was an absolute train wreck. Like, what was I thinking? I had no systems. I didn't even know what systems were. I didn't know how to manage people. But that's the challenge so many business owners face, is they have a love of something they want to do and they jump in head first, and then it's later the reality sets in that, oh, my gosh, this is what I have to do now. [00:01:02] Speaker A: Hey there, it's Ramsey here. That was Darrell Murrow. Darrell is a business coach, speaker, podcaster, and creator of the Murrow Method, a proven framework to help business owners and leaders scale their businesses without chaos. Here on the what's Worthwhile podcast, I focus a lot on mind, body and spirit wellness for its own sake. But while speaking with Darrel recently, we realized that having peace of mind and joy of spirit as part of your mindset is really helpful, if not absolutely necessary, to successfully grow a business. So I was excited to talk to Coach Demack about his journey from being Angry Darrell running a neighborhood CD store to becoming an expert at designing and using systems to drive business success. Let's get into it. Hey, Darrell, how are you doing today? [00:01:52] Speaker B: I'm doing great. Glad to be here, Ramsey. [00:01:54] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad that you're here. Thanks for. Thanks for coming out on the podcast today. You know, it is actually great to be back in touch with you again after like, what, eight or ten years since we worked together. Yeah, it's been a while. Yeah, yeah. Lots of things have. Have happened since then for both of us. We're. We're doing more and. And different things, and I just thought it would be fun to talk through some of those things that we both care about, you know? [00:02:23] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. [00:02:25] Speaker A: Cool, man. Well, let me. Let me frame things up a bit for us and for listeners. So, Daryl Murrow, or Coach DMacc, as your friends and fans call you, you're a business coach, a speaker, a podcaster, and creator of the Murrow Method, which is your framework to help leaders scale their businesses up without chaos. And as for me here on the. On the what's Worthwhile podcast, I think and talk a lot about the connections between mind, body and spirit and explore practical Ways that we can all improve peace of mind, vitality of body, and joy of spirit so that we can just go on and be successful in whatever area of life that we care about. But why don't we. Why don't we start here? Let's start with this. What. What led you into business coaching? You know, was it. Was it your own experiences starting and operating a business? And. And what was that like? [00:03:25] Speaker B: Yes. So I became a business owner in the early 90s. I'm dating myself. I had a CD store. I bought, sold, and traded CDs, records and tapes and all those things. It was. It was. Was a fun business. [00:03:41] Speaker A: Compact discs. [00:03:42] Speaker B: Compact discs. I know. You don't hear that mentioned very often anymore, do you? [00:03:47] Speaker A: Oh, I love them. I still have some on my shelf. Go ahead. [00:03:50] Speaker B: Yes. So. And I actually started selling at a flea market, and that led to eventually opening a retail store, and then we opened a second store. And along the way, we were growing, we were adding employees. And I hit a period that. It was a very painful period because everything kind of came to a grounding halt because I didn't know really how to run a business. I didn't have experience. And as the business grows and scales, there's all kinds of complexities that are added. And so I reached out to a business coaching firm that. And I worked with a coach every week for a couple of years, and it really transformed the way I looked at business and how I was able to become successful in business. And in 2008, I sold the store, and I was faced with not knowing what to do. And so I searched. I started looking for jobs, and then I thought about coaching and how fun that process was working with a coach. So that's what I decided to do. I feel like it found me more than I found it. [00:05:11] Speaker A: Yeah, well, absolutely. You know, I think things like that kind of grow out of our own experiences and seeing how we kind of struggled through as best that we can. But then that gives us some ability to kind of reach out and help others along the way. You know, what do you. What were some of those things that you struggled with in terms of, you know, trying to take your business from being initially a startup, but then growing it into a more successful business. What are some of the things that you really struggled with and how did you walk through some of those things? [00:05:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I didn't really understand. I really didn't understand how business operated. I thought I did. You have products, people come and buy them, no problem. But I didn't realize that the business has to be organized, and it has to be structured in a way. And especially when you're adding employees, then there's things to deal with, accountabilities and job responsibilities. And the word I use in a nutshell is systemization, the concept of systems. I had no idea what that was. And the only way a business can grow and scale is if it has systems, systems that work well, and then people that conserve, they manage these systems and know how to do that with working with these employees. And so I had no systems. I didn't even know what systems were. I didn't know how to manage people. It was a train wreck. When I think about it now, going into it, it was an absolute train wreck. Like, what was I thinking? But that's the challenge so many business owners face, is they have a love of something they want to do, and they jump in head first, and then it's later the reality sets in that, oh my gosh, this is what I have to do now. [00:07:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And in some ways, I think businesses, as they start to get that first little bit of success, they kind of become victims of their own success. You know, there's things that are really great, but then they get in the way or they become unmanageable. Like, are those some. What are some of those things that people run into? [00:07:41] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's a good way to say it. Victims of success. It's absolutely spot on. We want to grow, we want to be successful. But then as that business starts to scale and we don't have that infrastructure, then things can implode or stall out. I like to call it hitting a plateau or hitting a ceiling. And it's very common for that to happen. So some of the things that will come out of that is frustration. That's just one thing from the business owner, because you're used to doing things a certain way. You're used to growing, and then pretty soon you're faced with the reality that this isn't as fun as it used to be. For. For me personally, I remember standing. I was in the back of my store, I was looking up at the ceiling, and I thought, my gosh, I created a monster. And I don't even know how to get out. I don't even know what to do. And some people feel prisoned, like they're. They're shackled to the business, and it weighs so heavy on people that it can affect your. Not only your mental health, but your physical health. And that's. Those are some of the things that were starting to happen. To me. [00:09:01] Speaker A: Yeah. And what. What are. How do you get out of that? How do you get around it? What are. What are some of the important steps that you need to take in order to get out of. I mean, I think a lot of that has to do with a mindset. Right. And trying to establish the right mindset, because what you're describing is frustration, and then that leads to perhaps desperation, and that's just all kind of stress, you know, and like you said, that has cascading effects on, you know, your health and all kinds of things. But let's talk a bit about kind of what mindset is really helpful and productive to have in order to maybe fend that stuff off or turn it around or push it away. Like, how do you think about that? [00:09:50] Speaker B: Yes. And when you were bringing up how the frustration can lead, you know, it could. It can cascade and get worse. For me, it was started to go into depression and made it to where just life in general wasn't fun anymore. And so for a mindset, one of the first things is education. You know, when you asked about a step, once you realize you're in this type of situation, it's how can a person get educated and learn these types of things that they've never been exposed to before? And that generally comes with working with a mentor, taking classes, working with a coach. I mean, there's a variety. Working with a peer group. There's a variety of ways that one can go about doing that. But for the. For the mindset, we have to develop the mindset that, okay, this is just a normal course of business. These are frustrations, and there is a pathway out of it. So I think for the mindset is finding. Finding a way either through someone or being able to discover that, okay, this is a natural evolution, and there is hope. And this is what hope looks like on the other side when you're able to work through these issues. That's how I had to focus my mind. I had to really go into vision of what the business could become, and I had to stay in that vision. Matter of fact, the coaching program that I use, they called it business owners have to have double vision. You have to be able to have the vision to stay in the present while keeping an eye on the future. And I think that's very, very critical. [00:11:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, that's interesting because I hear and think a lot about mindfulness, about the idea of live in the moment and be aware of what's happening around you. But you're taking mindfulness to the next level when you're doing mindfulness and sort of imagining at the, at the same time, like it's better not be chewing gum or else you won't have a real problem. But do you find that difficult to be in the moment and in the future at the same time? [00:12:17] Speaker B: It can be difficult. And for me, and I'm only speaking for me, I don't know about other people, but it's something that I've had to continually practice and develop. And I believe it's like lifting weights or anything else. The more we do it, the easier it becomes. And so it's easy to get. To get distracted by something that's happening to us right in that moment. That, that's a challenge. And, and it's easy to stay in that space and not look at the vision which can start to bring us down emotionally again. So, yes, it, it can be difficult to practice, but it can be done. [00:13:01] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. So I usually frame things up in terms of having peace of mind. And the way that I think of peace of mind is a bit expanded from maybe the traditional definition, but I think of it as the opposite of cognitive dissonance or the opposite of being overwhelmed. And I think, you know, people find peace of mind when they have taken the, the time and the effort to really think through their situation, to look at things from as many sides and perspective. Perspectives as possible, and, you know, as you said, gotten educated and heard from different people and, and then have the. Also have the ability to really speak the truth as they see it and to deal with things on an honest level. What do you think about all that and what do you think about, like, how that would apply to the challenges of scaling a business? [00:14:03] Speaker B: I actually think it's very critical. Peace of mind is a very critical component to scaling a business. And I agree with your assessment. What did you say? The opposite of cognitive dissident or the opposite of overwhelm? To me, peace of mind is being in that space where there may be things happening all around us, but we are able to live in the moment and not let any of those things worry us. And it's not ignoring the things that are going on, it's just not letting them affect us on an emotional level. And I think that's very critical because especially in business and other areas in life, there's always going to be challenges. There's always going to be expectations that are not met. And in business, if you think about it, we have a lot of assumptions. We have assumptions that we're going to try this marketing piece and it's going to work, or we're going to do this, and it's going to make our clients happy, and then we might find out that doesn't happen. So our assumptions often do not come true as we imagine them to be, and that can cause a lot of stress. So learning how to stay in that peace of mind is absolutely critical. And for me, Ramsey, I can share. There's tools, little tools and techniques that I have learned and then used over the years that has allowed me to stay in peace of mind. Because when I was that business owner, when things were all falling apart, I refer to that as my angry Darrell period of my life. That was angry Darryl. I was angry, frustrated, mopey, moody, all of those things. And it was the opposite of peace of mind. And now I can progress and enjoy life because it's all how we look at it and frame it. So, absolutely, peace of mind is very, very critical for scaling. [00:16:22] Speaker A: So what are some of those things that you like to do? [00:16:25] Speaker B: So one of them, that they're just little tricks that I play on myself, but they work. And it's like building a muscle again. So our emotions are tied to our thoughts, right? When we have thoughts, that's what creates emotion. And so how can we avoid getting in certain emotional situations? So one of the things I did was, I tell myself, life is just a series of events there, and all events are neutral. We decide if they're positive or negative. So I'll give you an example. I used to get really upset when I was driving down the freeway and someone cut me off. I would turn all red in the face, and I'd be screaming like, you, you idiot. All this stuff, right? How dare you do that? And at that time, that was probably because I was chronically late all the time. And so I was rushing, right? That's another thing I had to work on, is I always arrive early for everything now. But so once that started happening, someone cut me off. I would say, darrell, it's just an event. It's just an event. It's not. It's just neutral. It's not positive or negative. It's just an event. Do I really want to make this negative? And then I would take a deep breath, and then it wouldn't bother me. And so those are little things. And I still use that today. It's more on autopilot than it used to be. But there's times I catch myself, I just say, all right, it's just an event. [00:18:01] Speaker A: And, yeah, you know, I think in a lot of Ways you're also moving into another, really another place of interest of mine which I think of as joy of spirit, you know, which is sort of walking around with having a, A good notion and, you know, happiness and sadness kind of comes and goes on, on the day to day based on circumstances. But in order to have a baseline of, of joy, I think that comes from, you know, know, a different place, a higher place, a connection with a higher power, and also connections with the people in our lives and, you know, our friends and family and colleagues and, and having that baseline of joy instead of a baseline of frustration or fear or anger. And I, I see and hear a lot of that in you too. Would you, would you agree with that as sort of a. A life goal? [00:19:07] Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. And, you know, I loved how you put that connection to a higher power and how the happiness and sadness come and go. I used to be somebody that thought, wow, I have. I had one day of happiness this week. This was great. And then the rest of the time I was mopey and moody and believe it or not, that's how I grew up. I thought there were good days and bad days, and I just thought that was my reality. And when you think about it, we're all. We're human beings, but truly we're. We often think of, we're human beings and we have a spiritual experience, but I believe we're spiritual. Spiritual beings having a spiritual or having a human experience. Yeah, yeah, spiritual beings living a human experience. And so the. And I believe that we all have gifts from our Creator. We all have natural gifts and abilities. And when we're able to take those gifts and abilities and provide value to other people in a way that benefits our fellow humans, then we found something that is our sweet spot, that. Our sweet spot for happiness. And what's interesting is I see lots of people out there that really have no connection to this. And, and they're in jobs and they're doing things that are unfulfilling. They're. They're really more in survival mode than thriving. Because if we're able to understand our purpose and connect to our passion, then we're living, we can live in joy. And I used to, I used to measure success for many years as how much money am I saving? What kind of house am I living in? These types of things because I wanted to. To be. I wanted to fit myself into the status quo and be at a certain level. But now I've come to realize that, at least for me, true success is how many joyful experiences I can have in my life. It's a measure of joy. And I really look at things. If I'm weighing out different options, I'm going to pursue something. I say, is this going to bring me joy? Or I'm always questioning that, does this bring me joy? How can I enhance it? And if it's not, if it's the opposite, then how can I get out of that so I can align myself with joy as much as possible? [00:21:57] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, it's. You said so many great things there. I think when someone is working through something like a business or, you know, being. Starting a business, owning a business, and at first it's exciting because it's fresh and new and, you know, you're making some money. But then when it gets to be grueling and difficult and maybe you've hit some. Hit a slump, or maybe you're just completely overwhelmed because things are going so fast. If you don't have. If that doesn't contribute to your purpose, like if that business is not doing something that you really love or you're not seeing how it's benefiting from other people, I think it's. That just makes it so much more difficult to keep going. Right. It's part of that mindset. You know, if you're. If you're trying to grow a business beyond just the amount of effort that you can pour into it, it's really critical to embrace the deeper purpose of yourself and the deeper purpose of the business. And what is it, and how is it that what you're doing, the business is contributing to, you know, the. The value of the community or to contributing to the success of your customers. You know, it feels like a very similar experience to go through sort of the visioning exercises of a business breaking through to the next level as the visioning exercises that a person might go through for, you know, what they want to do with their life. [00:23:32] Speaker B: Yes, there's. There's a lot of parallels like that. I agree, and I like that. One of my favorite sayings is I tell individuals there's really no business problems. There's your personal problems that you bring into your business. Because a person, a business is a reflection of the owner. Right. It's like your. Your good habits and bad habits are going to be applied into that business. And so we're. It's almost like as a business owner, you're running dual paths. You have the vision for your business, but then you have to have the vision for your life. And I believe when somebody goes into business, that business is A vehicle to fuel somebody's lifestyle. And where many of the business owners end up is the business consumes their life, so it's doing the opposite of what they intended when they went in in the first place. [00:24:40] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think that's really profound. And if the business is consuming your life, then how long can you manage that? And why would you. [00:24:54] Speaker B: That's right. [00:24:55] Speaker A: Then it's time to sell. That's right. You should be looking for an exit strategy and let it fuel someone else's life and let it fuel your life directly in cash. [00:25:05] Speaker B: But it's amazing, Ramsey. I've. I've encountered folks that they. The joy was sucked out of them in their business, and they were going through the motions like that, but. But that became their comfort zone, and so they just stay in it. There's people that will sit and battle it out. They're not making the money that they want to. They're not getting the satisfaction, but yet they're afraid to move in another direction or. Or they're so busy in the moment that they never take time to even contemplate what that would look like. [00:25:41] Speaker A: Yeah. So do you talk about some of this stuff in your podcast? You're the host of the Smart Business podcast. What inspired you to start podcasting and putting your ideas out there? What are you trying to get across to your listeners through your podcasting? [00:26:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you for asking. So these are topics that I discuss about in my podcast. And if I summed it up in one word, I would pick freedom. And that's kind of a blanket worm. A blanket term. However, there's plenty of podcasts and materials that talk about the technical side of growing a business and scaling a business. And although I do touch on those pieces, too, it's really the mindset and understanding that this process that we're talking about, because you don't find a lot of resources that address this. So, for example, I will. I've had episodes that talked about what happens if you're late all the time. Like I had mentioned earlier, if you're five minutes late, how does that impact you? I talk about things such as. Well, I talk about the just an event, the mindset pieces, and especially one of my favorite topics is taking total responsibility because we have to live as the creators of our life and our business, and it's easy to forget that and go into victim mode. I've encountered a lot of business owners that are in victim mode. And. And so it's really. It's interesting that you asked this, because now that I'm reflecting. I just wanted to help give people a pathway, a way to wake them up or remove the blinders off their eyes so they could see what it is that they're dealing with and how, how they emotionally and mentally can affect the, the impact of their business and ultimately to have more freedom in their life and be able to live and do the things that they truly enjoy and feel inspired to do. I wanted people to not have their life consumed, but to realize that, hey, this is our one shot at, at living and this business is providing for me. How do I make it provide for the best lifestyle possible? [00:28:31] Speaker A: That's really. That's really beautiful. And what also what, what strikes me, too, about asking you why you are. Are doing a podcast. You didn't, you didn't talk anything about your own benefit in the sense that it's not about you. You know, you're. There's nothing direct that, that you're trying to get from that. I mean, there's, of course, there's indirect benefits, too. And. But the point I'm trying to make is that part of being joyful, I think, is being generative. So generative is, is a phase of life where you're doing things for the benefit of others without the expectation of direct benefit to yourself and getting to that phase in that place of life. You know, the, the main ways that people can be generative include volunteering or mentoring or, you know, donating money. Basically means, you know, by helping people in ways that, that will sort of build a legacy and, and leave things better than where you found them. So I think it's great that you're sort of in that generative space and that you're doing stuff for other people. And I, you know, I do that stuff too. And the other thing, the other reason why I podcast is because I'm. I'm putting something out there, and I, I would love to hear back from people. And it's like, you know, podcasting for me, it's. It feels like, you know, shouting in the wilderness sometimes. And I don't want it to be that way. I want the people who are listening to let me know what they think. Like, I want people to respond back. And I think maybe if you're not a podcaster and you don't understand, but the longer that I do podcasting, I think all podcasts, podcasters really are doing it because they want to hear back, because they want to know, because they want people to respond, because they want to know how people respond to that. Do you feel that Too. [00:30:47] Speaker B: Absolutely. Shouting in the forest. That's. That's a good analogy. There's so many things that I've done in the podcast. And then I sit there and think, does anyone care? Does anyone. Is anyone listening? Is anybody out there listening to it? But then I see there's some downloads. I'm like, okay, well, somebody's doing it. So I'm just going to keep on going. And once in a while, I'll hear a random. I'll hear one random bit of feedback, which is really nice and inspiring. But yes, we. I think we need that feedback loop just to. Just to, one, to give us the confidence, but two, just to let us know that we're on the right track. [00:31:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, I'm also an avid sort of consumer of podcasts. You know, I listen to tons of them. And it only. It's so funny because it only recently occurred to me that I should respond to the podcasters that I listen to. [00:31:46] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:31:48] Speaker A: I mean, even. Good point, though. Yeah. Even though I had this, like, I've had for a while, this feeling that I want to hear from people that night, which I do, it only just occurred to me, like, weeks ago that I should try to start responding to the people that. Whose podcast I listen to. So shall we just make a. A blanket invitation to anyone listening to my or your podcast to reach back to us and leave a comment and leave a review, give us a rating and like, just send us a note, an email, a comment on social media. We want to hear back. We want you. We want your. We want your feedback. [00:32:26] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. And you know, Ramsey, you mentioned what, what inspired me to start that the podcast, these topics that I talk about, again, going back to my owner as the CD store and these challenges, it was such a. It really was such a painful period, it. In my life. And when I was able to come out on the other side, I felt like I won the lottery. And one thing I didn't share is I was working an average of 55 hours a week. I think that was a typical work week. And when I came out on the other side, meaning putting systems in understanding, working on the business, my hours per week dropped to less than 10. It was a dramatic shift. Now, this took a couple years to do. It didn't happen overnight, but the sense of freedom I had and being able to spend time with my son in elementary school and these other things that I couldn't do before, it really changed me. And so if anything, if I could just be a message of hope that this is possible. I think that's what really drives me because when, when I meet someone and they're in an overwhelmed space like I was, it's like I feel it. Like I understand what they're going through and I can feel that pain. And so, so that's really what drove me, you know, to do this in the first place. [00:34:05] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. I mean, so you were doing a retail, a retail business back in the 90s. It was a lot of, it was like used CDs and DVDs, right. So people would come in and they would sell to you and they would buy from you. So lots of interactions with your customers because your customers, you were also their customer. You were, you were a platform, you were in the middle. You know, in many ways your store sounds a lot like what happens online these days. Often there's a million sort of peer to peer platforms. You know, the world, it's funny how the world has changed a lot and not changed that much, you know, and the world, it just keeps changing. Like I feel like the last five years have just been sort of the most change that I've seen in my 50 plus years of life here. What do you think? What if, how have you seen the world change, especially in the last five years? You know, how are things the same now? And, and how are they different either for you, for your clients, for business? [00:35:21] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I, I agree. The last five years have been incredible. When we look at advances in technology and the way the, the things that Covid opened up, we had to reinvent ourselves and do for a lot of businesses, they had to change their delivery methods. New, new innovations came, which is really cool. But at the core, business is still business, which hasn't changed. You know, there has to be, you have to have a product or service, there has to be demand out there. You have to get your product or service to them. You still have to get your message out. I think the way the changes are is now there's so many different options for getting your message out there. There's so many platforms, the social media, et cetera. I was talking to someone the other day, I said, I think I'm going to do a, I'm going to do a mail campaign to a business. And they looked at me as if I was absolutely crazy. Right. That long ago that people actually did send, do mail campaigns and postcard campaigns and things like that. [00:36:28] Speaker A: It's, it's retro. [00:36:31] Speaker B: Retro, yes. I guess I'm considered the retro guy now. But these changes, they're the fundamentals of business are going to be there. It's just, how can we use the current changes in technology and adjust to them one without being overwhelmed? Because it means we're constantly having to learn something new. Right? It's the next platform. It's the, the newest technique. Something's adjusting and we're having to do that on a regular basis. And I, you know, it's. Change is always going to happen. It's never going to stop. And, and that's the only thing that we, that's guaranteed is that change is going to keep on happening. [00:37:19] Speaker A: Yes. Yes, it is. And what are you excited about coming up? All this, all this stuff is moving forward. Change will continue to happen. But what, what are you excited about coming up? What's coming up that you're looking forward to? [00:37:34] Speaker B: You know, I just, as I keep evolving, I, I keep evolving with the changes, and there's some new things that I'm working on that I've never done before, still in the same scope of my original business. But I think it's just the, the newness and the ability to reach people in different markets. I mean, look at now we can reach worldwide audiences. I mean, that just sounds so crazy to me from years ago that that was even possible. And I used to, I used to sell CDs and now whenever I want to hit a song, I just search on my phone and click the button and there it is. I mean, it's like magic. And I, and I keep thinking a lot of these advances in the technology, they're going to keep going. I think there's a lot of cool things that are going to continue, continue to happen involved that we're not even thinking of right now. So that kind of inspires me. [00:38:37] Speaker A: Yeah, very cool. Well, Coach dmacc, where can, where can listeners learn more and get more information and if they want to, to talk to you and, and learn more about the Murrow method, where, where can they get all of that information? [00:38:55] Speaker B: Yeah, you can go to Muromethod.com that's my coaching site. And I also have the site darylmurrow.com which is my speaking and podcast website. And the, the podcast is Smart Business with Daryl Murrow. That's the, that's the podcast. And if anyone does come and listen, please email me and let me know what you think. [00:39:23] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. Well, Daryl, this has been really fun. I'm really glad that we sort of reconnected in this new phase of, of technology. And, you know, we can trade some CDs and we can do that. But it's great that we've now hit into the the 21st century technology and this was fun. Let's. Let's talk again real soon. [00:39:50] Speaker B: I would love that. Thanks for letting me hang out with you today. It was an absolute pleasure. [00:39:57] Speaker A: Where to go from here? Visit whatsworthwhile.net to learn more about me, Ramsey Zimmerman and please reach out to me and let me know what you think. I don't want this podcast to be some message in a bottle thrown out to sea. I want to hear back from you. Please send me a message or an email or hit me up on X, LinkedIn, or Instagram. And please leave a rating and review for the what's Worthwhile podcast on Apple, Spotify, Iheart, or Amazon. [00:40:24] Speaker B: Thanks.