[00:00:00] Speaker A: Feeling really, like, calm and centered and collected and having a really different outlook on life, which was funny considering, right, that we, like, two weeks before, had lost our house and had lost everything and had, like, you know, we were just in this total chaos mode, and yet it was just like I had this, like, this deep kind of ability to, like, handle things and relief that was, like, very unexpected when you're suddenly halfway across the world with a toddler.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: Hey, there. It's Ramsey here. That was Molly shave. Molly had a very difficult time in her young adult years, health wise, but managed to turn it around. As a biochemist, Molly took what she learned and experienced to develop a protocol for helping others. We spoke about her approach to coaching doctors out of burnout, heard her own story of recovery, and talked about practical ways that everyone can protect their health. Let's hop right in.
Hey, Molly. Thank you so much for joining me for this discussion. How are you doing today?
[00:01:01] Speaker A: Hey, I'm doing well, thanks.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: Well, you know, we recently got back in touch after many years. I saw some of your content randomly on LinkedIn, and I thought it was really fascinating.
But in order to introduce you to our audience, you are a wife, a mother, a Catholic, and professionally, you are a coach working with medical professionals, doctors, to help them recover from burnout. So let's start there.
Is burnout a big issue these days in the medical profession? And what forms does it take? What does that look like?
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Yeah, burnout is a really, really huge issue in the medical profession right now. Some of the. The statistics that we're seeing is that one in ten doctors is so burned out that they are planning on permanently leaving the field of medicine within the next three years. So we're talking about hundreds of thousands of people having a really, really, really big problem. And what that looks like is, I mean, so it's. It's a little bit challenging. Doctors are not. They have this dynamic where if they publicly speak out about having health problems, then they are at risk of losing their license. And so that's kind of why it's put under this umbrella of burnout. But from a practical perspective, what it really looks like is, like anxiety, depression, being too tired to simply keep working, feeling really overwhelmed, being in pain. Kind of like those starting symptoms of autoimmune disease, often even is what burnout is encompassing these days.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's a really, really demanding profession. You know, I think there's, like, stories and movies about medical school and how just insane and, like, difficult it is to sort of get to that level. I can only imagine what it's like to sort of maintain it.
[00:02:59] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. And, I mean, it's definitely true that doctors are under a tremendous amount of expectations at work. I've worked in the emergency room and in clinics side by side with a lot of doctors, and they are under tremendous amounts of pressure. And at the same time, the burnout crisis isn't just affecting doctors. We're seeing it through all sorts of professions all around the world. So people with, like, really easy desk jobs that don't have any of those same stressors are also starting to get really, really burned out, which is part of why I believe that this is a bigger problem than just those work stress things. And people that are paid really little money are getting burned out. People that are paid a lot of money are getting burned out. So it's, I think, about a lot more than just work stress and pay.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: Yeah. So, generally speaking, kind of what describe what is your approach to helping doctors to recover from burnout?
[00:03:54] Speaker A: Yeah, so my approach is based on environmental health, so I help doctors to look at exposures that they're having on a daily basis to environmental toxicity factors and to figure out how to reduce those and how to get more toxicity back out. And it's like, it's a really new way of looking at kind of your daily experience than a lot of people have done. But it was really, really powerful for me, and it's helped a number of people that I've coached now to make a pretty dramatic recovery back from being really, really feeling quite terrible to back to being healthy and able to handle regular life again?
[00:04:35] Speaker B: Huh. So that that seems like a really novel approach, focusing on environment, chemical exposures.
How did you get there? How did you arrive at that approach, and how are you. How are you qualified to make that assessment? I mean, is this the part of the podcast where we make all the legal disclaimers? Like, I am not a doctor, I am not giving medical advice, that sort of thing. But how are you. How and where are you coming at this from?
[00:05:03] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. So, I mean, sure, we can make legal disclaimers. I'm not big on legal disclaimers because I figure, I mean, I don't know, the world's sort of a mess, and if people are going to sue you, they're going to sue you. So, like, I'm not a doctor. I'm not giving you medical advice. I'm a biochemist. But there's really not much I can do to control your actions. That's beyond me. You know what I mean?
[00:05:20] Speaker B: Okay, so tell me more about that. Tell me about being a biochemist.
[00:05:24] Speaker A: Yeah, but. So I'm a biochemist by training, and I have a certification from the CDC in general environmental health.
But really, how I arrived at this approach was through my own experience. So I got really, really sick about a decade ago, as I was towards the end of college and preparing for the MCAT, preparing to go to medical school, I started to have really frequent panic attacks. I started to have depression. I started to have suicidal thoughts really frequently. I was in a lot of pain. And then I began a job as a birth doula for Americorps while I was preparing for, like, as a gap year before starting medical school. And suddenly I lost the ability to walk. I was like.
I had been having stomach pain, and I had gotten given a medication, and then all of a sudden, I was just like, okay, now I can barely walk. So I. I got really, really, really sick.
Yeah, yeah. And then I stayed really, really sick. I did all of the standard everything. All the standard things, and I kept confusing all of my medical team because I follow instructions really, really, really well. And so they would say, like, go do this therapy and go take this medication and go try this thing and add this to your routine. And I would be like, okay, I did it. Now what? And they'd be like, well, I don't know. Nobody's ever actually, like, fully listened to my advice before that was supposed to work. I just had been assuming people weren't listening, right? Like, I was like, well, I mean, I did listen. So they were like, okay, we'll try the next thing. And I try the next thing. And they'd be like, well, I don't know what to tell you. And I'd be like, I don't know what to tell you. You're supposed to be the one telling me what to do. So we went around with that for a long time. And it was funny, like, even while I was really, really sick, a lot of my medical team kept being like, yeah, so, like, when you get healthy and you make a full recovery, then you'll come work in my clinic, helping me see patients, right? And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, when I make a full recovery, these are lifelong chronic diseases. There's no way I'm getting better. What do you mean, when I get healthy? Like, what are you talking about?
[00:07:41] Speaker B: So, yeah, that sounds really, really difficult.
[00:07:44] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. It was really, really difficult.
Yeah. But then things. Then things shifted. So we had moved across the country to be closer to more access to medical care. It's, you know, in addition to doctors being really busy and especially in the Pacific Northwest, it's really hard even for patients to get in to see doctors, which, you know, is just adding to that chaos that there's. There's more demand for medical care than there are physician slots to see patients, which is just astounding. So we decided to move. So we moved to where it was easier to see doctors regularly.
And in doing that, we moved into a new apartment, and it seemed pretty good. And then I started having a lot of asthma, and they started doing some construction, and as they took things down, my dad was a carpenter, and so I was looking at that, and I was like, those walls, those are rotted through with mold. Those are so moldy. That's just tremendously moldy.
And so we started looking. We're like, well, could my asthma be related to mold? And it's like, okay, well, it's very clear in the research that asthma is definitely related to mold. And we watched them do a really poor job putting the apartment back together. Like, they didn't even take off all of the rotten boards. They just put up beautiful new siding and wrapped the whole thing in plastic while it was still wet from a thunderstorm and then called it a day. And so we knew that we were just, like, in, like, just a giant amount of mold at that point, and.
Yeah, yeah. Like, just. Just a giant amount of mold. I'd never considered how much could be in there, and it was starting to get, like, yeah, but so my breathing was getting worse and worse, and, you know, my overall health was terrible at that point, and my husband was also really sick, and so it was becoming pretty clear.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: Had you been in that space?
[00:09:48] Speaker A: We'd been living there for eight months, I think, at that point, and it hadn't been that bad until they started to do the construction. And then when they started to do that construction, like, shaking up the mold, I guess, was when I started having to go to, like, urgent care and then the emergency room, because I couldn't breathe, like, every week. And so we were like, that's not. And it was during. During. Nope. I'm not going to say the word because that'll cause weird censorship and the thing. But it was during the time when it's bad to have breathing problems and need medical care.
And so, yeah, and so, so it was during that that I was, like, having all of these breathing problems. And so we were like, okay, so if the mold is playing a role in my breathing problems, we have to go. We have to leave this moldy house.
And then it became really clear that anything that had been in the moldy house was also making it hard to breathe.
And so that was our first realizing that objects have a history, right? Like, they've been in a place, and particles from that place are still on the objects, because anything that had been in our moldy house, when it came near me, I'd start having an asthma attack again. So we got rid of all of our stuff because I couldn't be near it all and keep breathing. We were like, okay, well, that's not. That's not going to work. I have to keep breathing. So.
[00:11:15] Speaker B: So you have.
You had great plans.
Your. Your plans hadn't worked out. You went to many doctors.
The doctors couldn't help you.
You found out that your living space was horribly contaminated. You can't breathe.
What. What does that do to your mind, your. Your psyche? Like, what. How. How did you find the strength or the will to get through that and to, you know, find a solution?
[00:11:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
We are. We are Catholics, and we were praying every day as we do this. I mean, at the time, to be honest, though, I was just praying for the strength to keep bearing all of the suffering. Right? Like, it was tremendous suffering. I was in a. In a lot of pain. I had severe psoriatic arthritis. And it's really, really painful. I was so fatigued that I couldn't really get out of bed a lot of days. I was in a wheelchair when I was outside the house because I could walk at most, like, I don't know, 1520 steps before I would just, like, be forced to sit down on the ground. So I was using a wheelchair. I was having all that asthma. It was just absolutely exhausting. And we had a two year old at the time, and so, you know, so we were praying, like, okay, God, and then just show us.
Show us the way. What do we do here? And one of my friends was like, no, stop praying for.
Stop praying that you'll get the strength to deal with it. Start praying that you'll get healthy. And I was like, no, I mean, like, I come from a medical background. I know that there are just some things that you just have to deal with, because there's no way to get healthy again. Okay? Like, you're wrong. I know it says that you can get healthy again, but it's not true. Okay? It's not true. This medical science says that I'm not going to be healthy, so I'm not going to be healthy, so I'm just going to pray for the strength to bear it. And then, like, two weeks after I started praying for the ability to get healthy again, God was like, oh, really? Yeah. Okay. We could do that.
Dang it.
If I had only known to ask, right? I mean, like, geez Louise. I mean, only known.
Yeah, but so then that's where everything shifted.
[00:13:35] Speaker B: How did things start to turn around?
[00:13:39] Speaker A: Yeah, so it was that really intense moment where we had left.
Left everything we owned. I had a two year old, but I had just gotten, like, an online job at that time, so we had suddenly had full flexibility to work from anywhere. And so we were like, well, I mean, I know that the last place that I felt pretty good before I got sick was when I was an exchange student in Spain. And so we were like, it's cheaper to live in Spain. It's sunshiny. We can go get fresh air. You know, right now it was the middle of winter in Minnesota and there was no fresh air to be had for us there, really, but just really, really cold.
[00:14:19] Speaker B: Fresh air.
[00:14:20] Speaker A: Well, really, really cold. But I mean, Minnesota is like another level of cold than Washington. It's like, if you go outside for 20 minutes, you'll be frost bitten all over or whatever. Like, it's.
It's cold. It's really cold. Yeah.
[00:14:34] Speaker B: Right on.
[00:14:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:35] Speaker B: So headed to Spain.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: So we headed to Spain and within and with none of our stuff, so we brought nothing with us.
And we had read a book by a man named Eric Johnson, which was called Beginner's Guide to mold avoidance because we knew we had a mold problem. And he had made an amazing recovery from chronic fatigue syndrome by learning to feel mold and chemicals on objects. And we were like, okay, I don't know.
I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that's a real thing, but it seems worth a try. Since we just got rid of everything, we might as well see if we can feel it on stuff, right? Like, what have we got to lose at this point?
[00:15:12] Speaker B: Right?
[00:15:13] Speaker A: Right. And so we got to Spain, and really rapidly it became evident that there was a lot of truth in what he was saying, that not only could we feel it on objects, but, like, whole places felt so different, like, immediately to my body that within days of getting there, we had used a wheelchair all through the airports to get me to Spain. I hadn't been able to carry any of the tiny amount of objects that we had rebought in the backpack. So my husband was carrying the backpack and our daughter and all that stuff. And I was in a wheelchair being pushed around. And then within a few days, I was walking around the city again.
We were like, whoa, I hadn't been able to walk in.
[00:15:58] Speaker B: So you're walking now.
[00:16:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:00] Speaker B: And then wheelchair bound. Within days, you're up and walking.
[00:16:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And then within a few more days, us carrying our daughter, I could lift our daughter again, which was just amazing, and it didn't hurt. I could lift her up. I could put her on my hip. I could walk with my daughter on our hip. I could walk with a backpack on. And it was. I could walk up and down hills, and I was like, whoa, whoa. This is a way. Something else is going on here that I can't explain with my usual understanding of health. Like, this is. This is really amazing. And I also noticed that my. My mental health was really different, that I was back to, I don't know, feeling like I did the last time that I was in Spain to feeling really, like, calm and centered and collected and having a really different outlook on life, which was funny considering, right, that we, like, two weeks before, had lost our house and had lost everything and had, like, you know, we were just in a total chaos mode. And yet it was just like, I had this, like, this deep kind of ability to, like, handle things and relief that was, like, very unexpected when you're suddenly halfway across the world with a toddler and a husband who, you know, who was like, my husband was diagnosed with early, early cognitive decline, which is.
Which is, like, early dementia. And so he was having trouble with.
[00:17:24] Speaker B: He was approximately how old at that point?
[00:17:28] Speaker A: 30. He was 30 years old.
[00:17:30] Speaker B: 30, yeah.
That doesn't sound right.
[00:17:34] Speaker A: Right. And so here I am, like, halfway across the world. You know, I had taken my toddler and my husband, who had previously had, like, you know, mental problems, to a place where he doesn't speak the language, he doesn't know what's happening, and all of a sudden, we're both, like, feeling way better, which is not. I mean, I just thought, honestly, when we moved there, that I was like, well, you know, it's a lot cheaper to get care here, right? It's going to be a lot cheaper to get somebody to come help us full time in the house, because there's no way that I'm going to be able to juggle all of this for that long by myself. And at least we can afford somebody to help us in Spain.
[00:18:07] Speaker B: Okay, so you didn't. You did not have the expectation that you had moved to Spain, and all of a sudden, you'd start feeling better.
[00:18:13] Speaker A: Not at all right away. Yeah, I didn't.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: That is pretty much what happened.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: It is definitely what happened. And I had, like, I had really no expectation that that would happen. I just expected that it was like, well, cost of living is lower. My salary will go farther, and I have, you know, permission to work from wherever, and I can afford to pay for some help from my daughter and my husband here so that I could keep my job. That was. That was as far as I had thought.
[00:18:38] Speaker B: So, I mean, what was different? So what was different over there that from here in the US, like, what, to what do you credit the change? What, what was different?
[00:18:49] Speaker A: Yeah. So now, at the time, it was. It was a huge mystery. And now, in hindsight, it's really clear to me. It's really amazing. So what's different there is that the buildings are made of stone, so mold doesn't grow in stone. Mold basically grows, like some types, a little of bit, but basically you don't have mold problems when you have stone. And the EU has, like, the European Union, which Spain is part of, has really big chemical controls. They control for thousands more chemicals than we do in America. So they're not using those same chemicals in their food, in their shampoos and conditioners and laundry soaps. They're not using the same chemicals on the roads. They're not using the same chemicals in their walls. So there was a really different amount of environmental exposures that just by changing to Spain, suddenly we were having way less exposures and our bodies could relax and get this stuff back out just naturally. And that's what did it.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: Okay, so I don't mean this in a bad way, but you had a very extreme case, right? Yeah. Yours is clearly a really extreme case. How applicable do you think, in your professional opinion, is this to kind of the rest of us, you know, sort of everyday people? Is this something that everyone ought to be concerned about? Is this something that you think that to some extent or another and everyone is experiencing, or do you think that it just something that really affected you and your husband because you were sensitive and because it was just enormous in your place?
[00:20:38] Speaker A: Yeah, and that's a really excellent question. And that's one of the things that I've spent a lot of time looking at research and talking with other people and helping people make really small changes and see the big difference it can make, because I really believe this is affecting every single person on the planet earth right now, and especially people in America, everyone. So we're all having a lot of exposures. And if you haven't had so many that you've gotten really, really sick, then the nice thing is that it's a lot easier to reduce just some of them and to start to feel better faster. So, like, before we had this whole understanding, I had started spending time at a pottery studio. And I had done pottery before when I was younger, and it had been fine. Like, I enjoy doing pottery. And even though I was sick, I was like, I just want to try doing pottery again. But there was something about this pottery studio that me and, like, the 15 other people that went there that were.
They were mostly other. They were mostly, like, retired people or other people with disabilities. And a lot of them were having depression, and they were like, you know, this. Like, this pottery studio is like. It's like my lifeline. Like, I'm not really sure why, but as long as I get in my, like, 20 hours a week at this pottery studio, I can kind of handle the rest of life. And we were all just like, there's just something about this. It turns out that that pottery studio had a tremendous ventilation system. They had installed just some of the. The biggest filtration that I've ever heard of to try to protect us from the, the particles of clay dust. And so that was just like, the clear, cleanest air that I've possibly ever breathed was in that pottery studio. And so before I understood this, just shifting, like, paying attention, like, you know, I feel better if I do pottery, so I'm just going to do 20 hours a week of pottery. That kind of shift in the air that I was breathing, it wasn't actually the pottery. Pottery is amazing. Art is good. Art is fun. But it was actually, it was the air that I was breathing, because I had done pottery before in college, and I was definitely still just, like, you know, just tanking, and so is everybody around me. But then in this time, I did it in Minnesota. I got better, and so did everybody around me. And it was like, what? What is happening? What's the magic of this pottery studio versus the other one? Well, it's. It was the air. It was the clean air break. We were all spending time in clean air. And so that's kind of the takeaway for, for a lot of regular people is that you just, these things affect us in really, really immediate time. Like, within seconds, the effects of different environmental toxicity is, is, like, palpable in the body that it will cause a change. So rather than, you know, trying to analyze my own thoughts when things happen or I teach clients rather than trying to analyze your thoughts, look for an external cause, like we call, if we kind of jokingly call it externalize everything, rather than, like, you know, the exact opposite of externalizing everything. Like, externalize, like, whatever is happening. That's a negative experience. There is an external cause, like, nine times out of ten, or even probably more than that, there is something outside of us that's causing pain, that's causing, like, anxious thoughts, that's causing a lack of energy. It's actually an external cause. And so just by paying attention to exactly when things are happening, by paying a lot more attention to the body, you can start to see those moments, those things are happening. But then you can prove it to yourself because you can test, because these are, like, these are chemical things. So you can, like, I give back pain, and a chair as an example, like, back pain is one of the chemical that causes that in a lot of cases, is actually physically on chairs. And so when I sit down in a chair that has the back pain stuff on it, because I'm paying a lot of attention to my body all the time, I can feel back pain, and I'm like, oh, no, that chair has back pain on it. So I'll stand up, brush it off and choose a different chair, or I'll even just squat because I'll just be like, well, those chairs are out. I'm not using that type of chair. I'm not going to get back pain on my back. And so it's that fast that, like, within seconds of sitting down, I'm like, oh, no, that chair has back pain on it, which is just a different way to think about it, rather than, oh, I have back pain, and I'm sitting in a chair. No, that chair has back pain on it.
[00:24:53] Speaker B: So, well, I'm sorry, but when you say it has back pain on it, like, what does that even mean? Like, is back pain like an animal, an object? You know, because I would say. I think most people would would say, well, that chair causes back pain, right? Maybe because of its shape or because of, you know, how hard or soft it is. But what you're saying something different, right?
[00:25:18] Speaker A: I am. I am saying something different, yeah. And the reason I say that it has back pain on it is because a lot of the time, that back pain from the chair will have stuck to my clothes, and I have to, I will continue to have the back pain from sitting in the chair for a moment until I brush off my clothes. Or sometimes I could even brush off the chair, and then the chair no longer causes back pain. So it wasn't the chair. It was some sort of contamination on the chair, causing back pain and transferring it to me and giving me back pain, which is just. It is a totally new way to think about it. But it's the thing that anybody listening to this can test that out. Pay more attention to how you're feeling in each moment. And when you notice a shift towards something negative, look for a cause. Just look. The brain is really good at noticing these patterns, and when you notice them, you can start to avoid them, and then that can create these amazing shifts without having to go halfway across the world just in your daily life.
You can really notice.
[00:26:18] Speaker B: Well, so I think one of the things that's really fascinating about what you're describing is that you are really focused on causation. You're really focused on what is causing people to feel a certain way. Whereas I think, you know, when we associate, you know, the idea of medicine or, you know, the medical sort of way that we do medicine in the US, it's how do you treat the symptoms? What do you do with how you're feeling so that, you know, if you have back pain, for example, then you take, you know, some pills that reduce your back pain, and it's not related to what's causing the back pain. It's how do I take an anti inflammatory or whatever it is so that I don't feel the back pain anymore?
So that's a really different approach.
And if that's the approach, then what are some ways that people can reduce their exposure to, you know, back pain molecules or things like that? I mean.
[00:27:38] Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny to call back pain milks, but, I mean, they're basically chemicals in volt spores. It's just like, the reason I don't use specific chemical names is that, first of all, it confuses people. And second of all, there's, like, there's 10,000 chemicals that they've invented in America, and there's, like, probably about 100 that cause each of these different symptoms. So we get into these really silly.
[00:27:57] Speaker B: Scientific debates, and they take really long names.
[00:28:02] Speaker A: Really, really long names. And it's. But the thing is that, like, it's irrelevant, right? So it's like, does it really matter if it's called herbal jarble or garble garble if it causes back pain and you don't want it on your skin, like, you know, just pay attention and get it back off of yourself, it doesn't matter what we call it.
So, yeah, so what people can do, though, is just really start paying more attention to every part of how you're feeling in real time and start just looking and noticing really simple patterns. Also reducing chemical exposures overall, like, chemicals that we're told are safe are not actually that safe, in my opinion. So, like, rather than switching from kind of standard shower and shampoo kind of chemicals to less standard ones, I would suggest just not using them as much as possible. Just using just water for almost everything and then just a bar of actual soap. So, like, soap that's made, you know, with lye and oil, that's like a hard pressed bar of soap. You probably even have to go to, like, a co op or a farm stand kind of thing to get those. Now you can't even get actual non chemical compound soap at the store often.
But stopping applying random extra chemicals to your body into your air is a really, really core thing because this is about, like, every person has kind of like a tank of poison. And when it's full up, you're going to start to get sick. And when you got it really, really full, then you're going to get really, really sick like we were. And so there are simple things like that, like just simply adding less random chemicals to your life that's going to reduce the amount that's in your tank and let you to get, you know, let you tolerate some of the chemical exposures that you don't control. So, like, a lot of us have a lot of exposures that we're also, that we're not controlling, especially if people live in apartments. Apartments are applying and cities are applying rat repellents. They're applying things to control weeds growing in the grass. And so you can't control those ones. But what you can do about that kind of thing is you can pay attention again to how you're feeling, and you can choose to spend as much time as possible in places that feel better. So just like all the other ones, like, rat repellents tend to make people feel really tired again. And so you can look for places where you don't feel so tired. And if you don't feel so tired, I promise there is less environmental toxicity around you. And so by spending more time where you feel better, you're actually going to be supporting your body in a much bigger way than it seems on the surface.
[00:30:38] Speaker B: All right, so if we have a tank, you described it as a poison tank.
How do we empty that? Like, are there ways to actively get the poisons out?
[00:30:55] Speaker A: Yeah, there are a number of ways to actively get.
To get poisons back out one of the main ones.
So it's like the poisons back out framework is challenging because each one of the things is a lot harder to get it back out than it is to not put it in in the first place, if that makes sense. So, like, our main approach has been avoiding putting toxicity into our bodies because it just takes a lot less effort on a daily basis than getting it back out. But getting it back out is really effective. It's just sort of like, you know, exercise is one of those things that you run, and that's really.
It's a really good way to get stuff back out. And yet most of us don't run because it's really hard to actually start running on a daily basis. You know what I mean?
It's really hard.
And so, like, saunas are another one that they're really, really research based, research backed. We know that when you use a sauna, the amount of all of this stuff that will come out through your urine and your sweat is tremendous. Like, you'll get out so much more of this stuff so much more rapidly. And yet I could tell 100 people to go use a sauna. And how many of them are going to actually go use a sauna? Like, I mean, it's just, it's not as.
It's not as actionable realistically for most people to actually start doing that. So it's like, I do use Asana myself now fairly regularly, and it makes a big difference. I use one, like, probably three or four times a month.
But even with my knowledge of how helpful it is, it's just. It's hard to actually make myself do the activities. So the simplest way, though, to get stuff back out is as you give your body relief from the places that feel bad, the body really does start to naturally clear stuff out just by, like, relaxing, by, like, hanging out and even, like, laying down in a more relaxed position in places that feel better. So, like, in a park or in your car in a nice feeling area will actually cause the body to release more of this toxicity away from you. That's my favorite easier way. That's, like, less. Less spelled out in the research, but it's so much more actionable that I prefer that method.
[00:33:15] Speaker B: Well, right. I mean, you don't always have time to go for a run or go and do a sauna. You know, often you have things to do.
[00:33:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:25] Speaker B: And. Yeah. No, I mean, it's always the case that it's better to not have the problem in the first place than to try to get rid of, or to solve the problem once it's. Once it's there.
You know, this podcast is called what's worthwhile?
And, you know, I'm asking myself that question a lot these days, and really, the crux of the question is, you know, what's worth our time and attention? What should we really be looking at and considering, you know, what's important? And, you know, there's just so much information out there these days, but there's so little agreement on, you know, what is truth. And it's.
It's a real process to sort of look at things and evaluate them. And in many ways, it's a very personal thing. In other ways, it's a societal thing to look at what's important and what's worthwhile.
I'm really interested in several things, and health and fitness is definitely one of them. Trying to be healthy for myself, but also to understand what is healthy for others and to share that. But I would be remiss if I didn't ask you that question directly.
What's worthwhile to you? You have an amazing story.
It has tragic elements, but it's so hopeful because of the way that you found a solution and turned it around. But as someone who had tremendous difficulties early on, but then have found a way through them, you know, now that you're here on the other side, what's worthwhile for you? Like, what, what, what do you see? What do you value?
[00:35:19] Speaker A: Yeah. So, for me, what's worthwhile is helping people who are in the depths of this right now who are, like, pushing into these walls and who are honestly in danger of fully giving up hope. That's one of those.
I don't. Yeah, that's. That's a huge thing that we're seeing, just even on LinkedIn, that, like, a lot of these doctors have just fully, fully given up hope. And it's really, really sad.
Really, really sad. And I just, I know that these things that I'm sharing can make a big difference immediately for all of those doctors and then for so many other people that are suffering so much right now. And so to me, that's what's worthwhile is I know how much, like, how huge that suffering is to be mentally suffering and to be physically in a bunch of pain and to be just, like, trying all these things and nothing's working, and all of that searching and grasping. And so it's worthwhile for me to spend, you know, the rest of my time here on earth figuring out how to help other people have less suffering, how to help them use this new way to.
To get their lives back so that they can do whatever it is that they enjoy doing and that they shine at and they can just not have to suffer and they can figure out what it is they are actually going to do. Because, you know, I believe we're all put here for a reason and that this tremendous suffering is really not supposed to actually be part of the plan. This is sort of like, I mean, it is supposed to be part of the plan, but at the same time, it's like, there is a way to have less suffering right now. And I think it's really, really worthwhile to help anybody suffering find relief.
[00:37:13] Speaker B: That's really beautiful.
And you have such an interesting kind of novel niche market kind of service and coaching business that you're developing very specific, working with doctors around anxiety.
How did you kind of pick that as a niche? Like, how have you gone about developing the ideas and concepts for that?
You know, I've done a bunch of different business things previously, and it is always a good idea to thoroughly and deeply understand your customers and your niche and what you're providing and what the demand is. And I'm just really interested to hear kind of, you know, how you went about that and where that's going.
[00:38:07] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's kind of been a long journey of, while we've been healing, I was doing lots and lots of research. I'm.
One of my personal attributes that's been given to me is I'm Molly and I have questions. So, like, if you type in, you know.
Yeah, so you have that on a.
[00:38:30] Speaker B: T shirt or on a hat or on like a button or anything?
[00:38:33] Speaker A: No, but like, you know when you do that, like that silly exercise on your phone where it does like predictive text, like, I'm Molly and you just type in the things. Mine always is, I'm Molly and I have questions.
[00:38:43] Speaker B: So the AI already knows.
[00:38:45] Speaker A: The AI knows that I'm Molly and I have questions. Right. And so that's always been. I wait. It's kind of like. My husband laughs that this has been like a journey, really, of like God being like, oh, yeah, Molly, you want to know the next great question to ask to come up with the next answer here? Let's just. We're just gonna like, going to be a little mini, mini train wreck here so that you can see what happens when you're exposed to ten, hundred times the amount of this chemical that anybody else has ever been.
[00:39:08] Speaker B: Do you enjoy the experiential learning?
Can I just have illustrative learning, for once. Does it always have to be experiential learning?
[00:39:20] Speaker A: Absolutely. Full body experiential learning. That's why I'm so confident about, like, what each of these chemicals is, is because I'm like, well, that was an improbable amount of that chemical I was just exposed to. Now I can go look at the research and see if it matches with what I just experienced. Lovely. And so that's, like, that's the core of how I did this. And then these toxicity things are behind so many illnesses. And so, yeah, so I was searching around, being like, well, who.
Who's, you know, whose hands do I get this information into? And I ran up against a lot of different walls trying to share this information. And then also, like, just the reality that building a business takes a lot of time and skills, and so, as you know. And so I've been, like, developing those skills through all these different approaches. And then I, like, I was researching a lot about how to do kind of employee wellness stuff and the burnout thing, and I realized that the symptom list of sick building syndrome matches exactly the symptom list of burnout. Like, one to one. Like, they are. They are exactly the same thing. And I was like, well, I mean, there we have our answer, right? Sick building syndrome and burnout are exactly the same thing. There is my proof. There is my. Like this. We are talking about one. One concept. We're talking about environmental toxicity. And so that's when I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna go get certified in this by the CDC. I'm gonna just do all of these, you know, parts to do this. And then it's like, okay, well, who's having the most trouble with burnout that I already know, because, you know, I was on the way to medical school, and I just. I get along really well with doctors. It's just kind of, like, who I am, who I like to hang out with. And I. I've worked as a scribe in the ER.
[00:40:55] Speaker B: I spent a fair amount of time with doctors.
[00:40:57] Speaker A: Well, yeah, as a patient, but also professionally. I've worked side by side with doctors a lot, as a scribe in the emergency room and in an orthopedic clinic and in a natural health clinic. So.
So, yeah. And they're just. They're like, they're my people. And I was like, well, if my people are suffering from this, then I got to come, you know, gotta come help them. But, yeah, yeah. And also, I mean, the other reality is that then the physicians, ideally, will take this, you know, their own personal recovery and testament of being like, wow, like, this other stuff wasn't working. This didn't did work for me. Now I'm going to help other people do it, too. And so that's the other thing that I'm hoping is that that'll kind of be, like the start of sharing these ideas in a bigger way. We'll be having physicians be able to then go on and teach these things.
[00:41:48] Speaker B: Is there anything else that you'd really like to get across kind of as we, or before we wrap up?
[00:41:55] Speaker A: Yeah, there's one more thing.
Chemical spill sites are a really big deal. And like, I know for your, for your listeners in kind of the Olympia area, there is one chemical spill site that's of particular personal concern to us, where my husband got really sick, and I'm not going to name it if that's okay, but people can go onto the EPA website and look up chemical spills near them.
So one in three Americans is living on or near or working at a chemical spill site of national concern, which means that they're being exposed. Yeah. Yeah, one in three. So it's a really huge deal for doctors, for patients, and for a lot of us on a personal level. Like, that's a big part, it turns out, of how my husband got sick. And as he was sick, nobody asked that question, like, where do you work? Let's pop it in and look. Oh, did you happen to work at a chemical spill site that causes these exact symptoms? No, nobody asked. But it was exactly what happened that he had worked at a spill site, and it was, you know, the spill had happened 30 years before he started working there. He didn't know. We had friends that lived in the area, and they started to get really weird sick, and they had no idea that they were living next door to that site.
And so that's just another thing that I just think is really important.
Yeah.
[00:43:25] Speaker B: Well, Molly, thank you so much.
I learned a tremendous amount and just really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your story. And I also just really appreciate the way that you're dedicating your professional energy and your spirit to helping others, to helping doctors specifically, but also just helping everyone who might even hear something like this. So thank you so much.
[00:43:55] Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me, Ramsey.
[00:43:57] Speaker B: Thank you for asking. What's worthwhile? Visit whatsworthwhile.net to learn more about me, Ramsey Zimmerman, and please provide your name and email to become a supporter. I'm asking for prayer, advice, feedback, and connections. The what's worthwhile podcast is on Spotify, Apple, iHeart and Amazon. You can also
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