Episode Transcript
[00:00:11] Speaker A: What's worthwhile considering what we consume, believe, say and do towards peace of mind, vitality of body, and joy of spirit? I'm Ramsey Zimmerman. Here's some more healthy living, motivation and discussion.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: One of the mistakes that I think that people too often make is this idea of willpower. You know, it's like, I've got to have better willpower. It's just a matter of willpower. It's a matter of motivation, all of these things. I'm much more of a believer in changing the environment that we're in, making healthy choices easier for ourselves, that is. It's a concept called friction.
But it is the idea that we want to set up our lives, set up our environments in a way that makes good choices easier.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: Hey there, it's Ramsey here.
That was Matt Campbell. Matt is a PhD licensed clinical psychologist with more than 20 years of clinical experience and the author of Our Primal 5 the Simple Five Week Guide to Self Care. He and I had a really great discussion because the things that we focus on are nearly identical but merely categorized a little differently. We both drive home the message that the basic foundational approaches to health are critical but not easily accomplished in today's world.
We spent a lot of time talking through strategies that people can use to better more easily and more consistently integrate good practices into their lives.
We also took some detailed dives into getting enough good sleep, the difference between daily movement and deliberate exercise, and even how outdoor summer camp is great for kids.
I hope you enjoy this conversation and find it packed with practical advice. Let's get started.
[00:02:15] Speaker C: Hey Matt, how are you doing today?
[00:02:17] Speaker B: I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Looking forward to talking.
[00:02:22] Speaker C: Yeah, totally. Me too.
You know, I'm excited to talk to you because I think that we have really great alignment in terms of what we focus on and what we recommend for people in their daily lives.
You are a licensed clinical psychologist with
[00:02:43] Speaker A: more than 20 years of clinical experience,
[00:02:46] Speaker C: and you're also the Author of our Primal 5, the simple five week guide to Self Care.
So in my work to promote better before burnout, I focus on four things, which are waking, eating, moving and sleeping.
And your Primal Five are sunlight, sleep, movement, connection, and consumption.
So clearly there's a big overlap there.
[00:03:20] Speaker A: But here's my first.
[00:03:21] Speaker C: Yeah, but here's my first question for you.
As a practicing psychologist working with patients all the time, how and why did you decide to promote those five specific things to people in their everyday lives?
[00:03:39] Speaker B: Well, it really came down to that experience, that amount of time and experience that I Had so many people who were coming into the office and just feeling overwhelmed, feeling like there was something so wrong with them, and also noticing this pattern where we were dealing with these deficiencies, deficiencies in these basic areas of our functioning and so handling stress, difficulty there, having difficulty getting going, irritability, all these different things were, you know, natural results of this. These being depleted in these different areas. And so that became more and more a focus, really, with every client to check in on these different areas. And, you know, one thing I will say that is important to me, you know, in terms of mentioning, has to do with not implying that all mental illness or things that people struggle with are due to deficiencies here, but at the very least, attending to these helps people a great deal in terms of strengthening a foundation to be able to then work on these, you know, what they're coming in with and what they're struggling with.
[00:05:06] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
And, you know, it strikes me, it always strikes me that these things that we focus on, they're just. They just sound so simple and basic, and yet they're really not easy. They're. They're not easy for me, for ourselves, and for our clients to actually do. And why do you think that is? Why do you think that these really basic things have often just become so difficult for us, you know, in our modern lives?
[00:05:43] Speaker B: I think it begins with us living now in a world so very different than our ancestors at a time so different than when our bodies developed into what they are now.
Our ancestors did not have choices in terms of these different areas that we both focus on. And so our ancestors didn't have to, you know, determine or they didn't have to schedule a time for movement throughout their day.
They had to move. They didn't have to intend to go outside and make an effort. They lived outside.
You know, they. They had to be connected to others because that was the only way to survive. And, you know, food. They had to work to. To obtain food. And. And they, you know, and. And there weren't options of anything that was processed. So we have so many things, so many of these many cases, wonderful conveniences that are available to us, but they can also get us further and further from what our bodies were made for. And then you have to add in that a lot of times the easiest, least expensive, most immediately enjoyable experiences come from things that are not natural and not what we're made for.
[00:07:14] Speaker C: So it feels like it's kind of a mixed blessing, right? Like we have all of these things available to us that people didn't have. But it almost also feels like we've lost some things because we don't have access or that we're not reliant upon the same things that we used to be reliant upon.
[00:07:38] Speaker B: I absolutely agree. I think of times where my children have gone to a camp, and they'll go to a camp, and they'll have this experience of, you know, their phones. They don't have access to phones. You know, they're living in a rustic cabin for a week or two.
And so they're having this experience, and they're getting a window into what we're made for.
They're with a group of kids that, you know, they're together, they're doing activities, all of these different things. And so they are all of a sudden put in something that is so much closer to, you know, being. Being consistent with what we're made for. And it's incredible. It's incredible. I think about one of my sons, and he went, you know, to this camp. And of course, a lot of times when they go to a camp, they're just so excited. They've been around kids for. For a week or so, but he really was. And he even said to me, I'll never forget, he said, I'm done with video games.
I'm done with video games. And, you know, he made this, you know, really strong proclamation. I'm done with this.
But two days later, he was on the video games.
But it's difficult. Like, you know, it really is difficult. Like, I don't see that as a weakness on his part. I see that as navigating this world because his friends are on video games.
And so one of the ways that they interact are video games. And so, you know, we have this. This. This dynamic in our lives now where, you know, many of the things that are unhealthy, particularly in excess, because I think that's an important part.
But in excess, those things are just not natural and in the short term, will typically be okay. But when we stack them, when we stack time after time of doing these, that's when we suffer.
[00:09:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
Yeah.
And it seems like there's just a ton of pressure from all sides, whether it's marketing, advertising, peer pressure.
The world wants us to do lots of things that include lots of, you know, highly processed food and video games, you know, only a few examples.
How can we systematically resist that and, you know, take our own path? Because it's not easy to get out of the flow of what everyone else around us is doing or what people want us to do.
How do you encourage people to make different decisions from, you know, what they perceive as the norm?
[00:10:33] Speaker B: I think that it reminds me, in some ways of working with someone and the idea of mindfulness, the idea of awareness and acceptance being the first step that we need to take. And I absolutely love that approach. I love those concepts.
And there is a lot of overlap here. I think the first thing we need to recognize are these things that we've been discussing thus far is that, you know, we have to recognize what are we made for and what are we dealing with. That's the. It has to start there. And of course, as you said, we have to recognize that we have these. These corporations that, you know, they're. They're really trying to get our attention, they're trying to get our money, our time, all of these different things, and they are exceptionally good at it.
They are better than ever.
One of the mistakes that I think that people too often make is this idea of willpower. You know, it's like, I've got to have better willpower. It's just a matter of willpower. It's a matter of motivation, all of these things. I'm much more of a believer in changing the environment that we're in, making healthy choices easier for ourselves.
That is. It's a concept called friction, but it is the idea that we want to set up our lives, set up our environments in a way that makes good choices easier.
You know, so I want to, you know, do something. Like, if I want to eat healthier, then I really would be best to, first of all, go grocery shopping on a full stomach so that I'm not gonna have that tendency to grab all the, you know, those processed, you know, sugary foods so quickly because I'm going to be satiated.
And so that's something. But then the things that I have access to in my home are healthier choices.
It doesn't need to be. Everything is perfectly pure and clean. You know, it doesn't need to be that way, but it does need to be.
The majority of the things that are easiest to access are those things that are going to be healthier for myself.
I want to set reasonable goals is another thing. I think so often people are trying to do five things at once, and they're trying to get to the end immediately. You know, they want to work out five or six days a week. You know, that's the goal. And I just. I don't think we're setting ourselves up for success in that, because we want to, you know, we're going to pick one. We're going to go after this one thing.
We're going to try to make incremental change, to start building some momentum, to start feeling the benefits of living in this different way. I think that those are a few things that we can do to try to get, you know, stem the tide and try to get it going in a direction that's better for us.
[00:13:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:31] Speaker C: Well, your point about friction is really a great one.
And, you know, it's like when we're already overwhelmed, when we're already stressed out, when we're already headed towards burnout, when we're already depleted, you know, we really just want to do whatever is the easiest, you know, whatever is at hand, whatever we can grab, whatever we can, you know, do the drive through and get through the window.
But there are ways to, you know, make the better choice easier and require less energy than the difficult thing.
[00:14:17] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:14:21] Speaker A: We all feel it, the pressure to perform, keep up, move faster, all while staying present and connecting with our loved ones.
[00:14:29] Speaker C: It's a lot.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: I know. So join me live weekly on Zoom Tuesdays at noon Pacific time for sessions of better before burnout. Waking, eating, moving and sleeping to beat stress and bring vitality. These sessions are interactive and customized. Each time I go through the foundations of establishing vitality that carry you through your days and calm your sleep through your nights. I also focus in on particular practical strategies. Learn more and register online by visiting whatsworthwhile.net better. Don't forget to use coupon code. Blast off for one free session.
[00:15:12] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I think that one of the things that we battle with, and in some ways it. It sounds not only countercultural, but it also sounds wrong to many people, is the idea of limiting choices.
I think that that isn't something that people necessarily think of or think of highly, but it really is one of the ways that we can help ourselves to make healthier decisions. Because if we are constantly making choices and having a variety of choices about everything available to us, well, then emotion is going to often take the day. And so it's going to be the most enjoyable, the most immediately reinforced, forcing thing. And so oftentimes, you know, and that's kind of one of the aspects of friction, is that it's not necessarily that we can't eat something that's unhealthy, but it's going to require more effort. It's going to require, you know, getting in a vehicle or making, well, I guess today, making that phone call and spending that extra money for the food to be delivered. To us, I guess that's also an option, but it does require more steps. And what we're really trying to create with the unhealthy steps is create a pause. You know, create a time between the, you know, the thought and then the action or the. Yeah, the occurrence, like thinking, okay, I'm hungry, and then the action that's needed to be taken. The more of a pause we can create, the better chance we have of a good decision.
[00:16:49] Speaker C: Yeah, well, and I think, too, that in all things, we have certain momentum. You know, we have the ways that we usually do things and they work for us, or at least we think that they work for us and are. We're accustomed to them.
And then maybe we. We sort of understand intuitively that we could do things better. But, you know, we haven't really figured it out yet, and we haven't tried it. And it's something different. And it's not different, exciting. Like, you know, things that are really flashy and glitzy that people are trying to sell to us.
It's something different that we have a perception that it's less interesting or more difficult.
How do you help people get past that momentum in their lives of either things that they are doing that maybe they know that they ought to do less of or things that they haven't done yet because, you know, it just feels daunting.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: I think there are a few things that you said in that. In that question, in your statement. I think there are several things that you said that to me speak to one of the central aspects of this, which is we are accustomed to this way of living, you know, this cultural moment that we're in, we're accustomed to it. And so it has in many, in many ways become our normal.
And so if we can try to start making these incremental steps and we don't have to give it all up, you know, it's just trying to improve one thing. But the more that we can improve those things, we can try to start turning that momentum where we can have people actually experiencing the benefits of these better choices, healthier choices for ourselves.
But we really do need to experience it. It's the difference between knowledge and wisdom, knowledge and experience, that once I start making these choices and I actually can experience what it's like to do these things differently, how I feel when I do these things differently over time, that's when we have more buy in, all of us. I know for myself, I was a number of years ago, I really got into this exercise routine.
I'm not sure. How popular it is now, but it was called P90X and so this I remember.
[00:19:21] Speaker C: Yeah, that was hardcore stuff, man.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: It was hard. It was hard.
But you know, I was doing that and it made me kind of get into your, not obviously your expertise, but your realm of diet.
And, you know, seeing how this fuel I was putting in my body, how it affected me and I, I really got to a point where I was eating very cleanly and so I was, you know, feeling good, I was eating cleanly. I was on a vacation with my wife and her family and we went and we ate really rich food, you know, food that I had not had. And it made me feel like it really was a reminder to me, you know, a very strong experience. A reminder. That's not what my body was made for. You know, my body was not made to consume these things. But again, without those experiences, we lose sight of it. Without those experiences, we just get accustomed to the way we're feeling, the way we're living day to day.
[00:20:23] Speaker C: And so maybe part of it is being sort of open minded or being sort of really conscious about it or, you know, being open to a change.
And yet if you're looking at a list of, you know, 20 things that can be really overwhelming, I usually often encourage people to just try kind of one thing at a time.
[00:20:50] Speaker A: Right.
[00:20:50] Speaker C: To sort of ease their way into it and begin to experience some benefits. Benefits from those early wins.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: I couldn't agree with that anymore. I think that's a great approach.
One that I'm reminded of, one of the five areas that I focus on that I'm reminded of when you say that is sleep.
[00:21:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:15] Speaker B: So often I will work with someone and I'll ask them about their sleep and essentially what I'll get from them is, well, I'm getting four to five hours sleep.
And then the comment that follows will often be, but I don't need that much sleep.
And while that is true in some rare instances, it's not true for the vast majority of us. But people are accustomed to that depletion in that area, that fatigue. They're accustomed to, to coffees upon coffees, you know, and energy drinks these days, goodness, these energy drinks. And all of these different things that are accustomed to those compensatory techniques. And so one area that is so great to focus on, I've found is sleep. Because when people can start experiencing how different their lives can be with adequate sleep, that's one of them that in and of themselves can create momentum. I would say that and social functioning Are the two that I've noticed people just from an experiential point of view, benefit from and start gaining that momentum most quickly.
[00:22:29] Speaker C: Yeah, I think people, a lot of people have a lot of trouble with sleep.
And the troubles that people have with sleep are multidimensional.
You know, it's often tough to fall asleep. It's tough to stay. Stay asleep.
It's tough to experience deep sleep while you're sleeping.
What are some. Some gems of advice related to sleep specifically that you, you know, really like to focus on One of them.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: That's actually something that I will suggest to people as a first step in general is when they wake up.
You know, if you have a tea, if you tend to like to read something, whatever it is that you like to do upon waking, sit in a chair outside, sit on a porch, something of that nature can be such a great first step, you know, you know, connect it with something we already do and get outside. And I say that with sleep because that's actually a really good sleep management technique.
Is that morning sunlight, you know, hitting our eyes, you know, getting that on our skin, you know, just getting that morning sunlight is setting the circadian rhythm, which is going to help us, you know, it's. It's letting our body know, hey, it's daytime. And so it can help help our body get set in that way. Sleep in general is something that is really a conditioned behavior. It's something that the more we have schedule and routine and predictability, the better it goes, the more signals there are to our body that it's time for rest, it's time to get to bed. There's a wonderful approach. You know, for those who have really significant sleep problems. You know, there's wonderful approach, cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia, which is a really effective approach. But. But at the end of the day, the most straightforward aspect of sleep management has to do with conditioning. In other words, schedule, routine.
And so, for example, I don't just mean what people often think of, you know, bedtime. Having a consistent bedtime, which is great, which is absolutely great. Having a consistent wake time is also great.
But the others are things like if I'm laying in bed and I'm having a hard time getting asleep, perhaps I'm having a hard time falling back asleep. We need to really attend to that and make sure that I'm not laying in bed, incredibly frustrated. Right? We want the bed to be associated with sleep. So sometimes we get out of bed if we're not feeling on the cusp of sleep. You Know, get out of bed for a few minutes, do something that's not super stimulating, let yourself get back to that fatigue, and then get it back into bed. Because that's another part of the association. You know, if I'm folding laundry and watching television and doing all these different things in bed, it's. It's. Now that bed is associated with different things. I always say there's two things that happen in bed. You know, we don't want the others.
[00:25:45] Speaker C: Mm.
Yeah. And you're matching with, you know, morning sun, I think, is really important. And it's great to also, you know, get the sunlight at the end of the day, you know, because there's different frequencies involved, you know, different wavelengths of light, and our bodies are tuned to that. So getting that late day day sun that's, you know, more orange, red also is good at signaling to our bodies that it's time to sleep and, you know, getting consistent movement and exercise, you know, between and after meals and throughout the day, exercise routines, you know, doing it a certain day of the week. Fantastic. But you. You can't just get your movement, you know, three times a week. You need to. Need to be getting up and moving throughout the day multiple times per day, every day. Right, right.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that movement is.
I mean, it's absolutely essential. I think that, you know, I'm reminded of when I was putting the workbook together and I reached out. I live in a college town, and I reached out to a friend who's in the health sciences department, and I asked her if she would read the exercise chapter, is what it was. And when she. When she gave me feedback, one of the things she said is, you really, I would really suggest changing this and titling it movement.
And I thought it was really great advice because so often we think of exercise. There are these connotations with it, often, which are extreme. You know, we hear exercise and it's, you know, it's running a marathon or it's lifting really large amounts of weight and these kind of things. Hey, if you want to do those, if you're doing those, fantastic. But I think a lot of times when we're trying to initiate, we're trying to start this in our lives, recognize walking is a wonderful exercise. It is really a great exercise. You know, our ancestors were not. Not, you know, bench pressing 300 pounds, you know, and they, you know, they weren't running marathons.
Again, that's fantastic if you want to do it. But really, we're trying to get that movement. And as you said, Trying to make choices throughout the day that, you know, that. That easy, convenient, you know, elevator isn't always the best choice.
You know, if we can take some stairs and do some things like that, just make choices throughout the day where we are moving.
[00:28:29] Speaker C: Well, let's talk about connection some, because we've mostly been talking about things that we're doing ourselves.
But it is really critical, isn't it, that we connect well with other people, the. The people in our lives. And it's difficult. It's more difficult, right, to have and maintain relationships when we're depleted, when we're in survival mode, when we're stressed out, you know, in your practice, how do you see, you know, what are some things that you see that are, you know, difficulties in connection that are related to those things? And how do they improve as people, you know, pay more attention to their primal five?
[00:29:20] Speaker B: Well, I think that. That the connection aspect that, you know, there's actually a white paper on the loneliness epidemic. We live in a world where we are increasingly spending time apart from one another. And it's. It really is an absolutely essential part of our functioning and our health is to have connection with others.
And so in terms of how that shows up, I think certainly with depression, that is something that is often a part of can, you know, can contribute to. Can worsen these kinds of feelings that we have.
Because that is, you know, it helps regulate our emotions. It helps us a great deal in terms of stimulation, belonging, these kind of things. And so I really, you know, it's something that I think is so overlooked. And I think sometimes we perceive that some of the things that we're doing are giving us the connection, you know, we perceive, like maybe a kid feels like playing a video game with other kids. That's social. I actually have seen that with my sons is that, you know, there's this idea, you know, they don't spend the night at each other's houses as much as they used to, to, you know, they'll get on a game system and do that. And while that's certainly better than complete isolation, it's really not fully hitting the mark for what we're made for.
You know, it's good to be in the presence of other humans. And the way that I. And I also really like to emphasize the way I view the connection aspect, the way I would define it is that interaction, that time, it is the end. It is not a means to an end.
It's not. I'm seeing. I'm doing this because this is a work colleague and we're doing this piece of work together or, you know, if I interact with this person, it's going to help me get this thing.
It's. We're with that person to be with that person. We are with that person because there is this shared connection with them that it is the end, it is the purpose of that time.
[00:31:44] Speaker C: And we don't. We don't get as much of that anymore, do we? You know, I think.
I think of, like, guys especially, you know, we tend to get together for a purpose or there's at least a sort of presumptive purpose, whether it's to watch the game or, you know, go out or to do whatever. It's not to, you know, actually just spend time.
And, you know, if you have been married for a long time, it's. It's amazing how you have to, you know, actually really think really hard about creating. Creating a date night often, unless you have that sort of blocked out as part of your pattern how, you know, it's.
And I think that too, there are specific impacts upon relationships when we are depleted or stressed out or on the edge of burnout because, you know, we're snapping more.
Maybe our temper is short.
Maybe we don't have the attention span.
I've heard and read about specifically the erosion of empathy, which I thought is just a terrifying phrase based on just not having the physiological capabilities to be empathetic. So do you see a lot of that?
[00:33:21] Speaker B: I do. I do. What, what is the. The saying Hurt people, hurt people. And I think that it's. It's a real thing. I think that we, we're dealing with so many others. It's become so normative depletion. It's, you know, so many things that, like humanity have become normative.
And so, you know, that's a. That's a really important factor for a variety of reasons, one of which is that it. Because it's normative in some ways, there's almost credibility.
You know, there's almost, you know. How long did you work? Well, I worked this long today. And it's, you know, really need to be careful of that. We really need to be, you know, attentive to. Well, is that really a good thing? You know, if. If I were saying something else that was objectively unhealthy, would we be comparing notes on, you know, well, how unhealthy were you?
I think we really need. Sometimes if we change the frame and we look at it in a different area, we would recognize. Well, you know, maybe. Maybe we. We need to take a Step back and look at this. But yeah, and so I think in general, like you're saying our interactions and.
But at the end of the day, we are responsible for ourselves and what we're doing and we're responsible for the choices we make.
And so I think that we really need to be cautious too, just in a boundary based way, is that, you know, I have plenty of folks that I work with or have worked with with where they want so greatly for the other person, they want them to feel better as well. But you know, at the end of the day, and it sounds harsh and, but I don't think it is in terms of boundaries is sometimes we just have to let other people have their problems.
We have to let other people find their way and certainly be available. Hopefully we'll be available to be, you know, kind and assist or invite. You know, invitations are so important in a variety of ways in our lives.
But we really need to, to recognize that we have to take care of ourselves, you know, that we have to take care of ourselves. And we may, you know, really terror, you know, tremendously want to help somebody. But one of my little sayings that I'll say is you can't hug a porcupine, you know, you can't, you know, there's only so much we can do to encourage and sometimes we're going to pay the penalty, you know, if we try too much and we try to take care of other people's challenges.
[00:36:08] Speaker C: Well. And it works both ways in the sense that, let's say that you have, you know, partners and maybe one of them is sort of enthusiastic about trying to do health stuff and the other one is not enthusiastic about it.
You know, that can potentially create either, you know, at a minimum, some awkwardness or some, oh, you know, going on your health kick, you know, or there's like pressure around, you know, is this a reflection? You don't think that what I'm doing is good enough or, you know, so talk to me about some of the strange dynamics between people who are together, but they're in very different places, you know, in their health journey or sort of how they think about that.
Because on the flip side, it'd be great if, you know, people were aligned, if they were in sync, because then, you know, they could reinforce, they could be, you know, helpful, they could be accountability partners, buddies and things. But often that's just not really the case.
[00:37:29] Speaker B: You know, where I see that happen or one of the, the ways people get tripped up in that regard that I see the most often is when someone starts a healthier journey for themselves and because they want their loved one to experience the similar benefits and things like that, sometimes we push too hard, and it certainly can come off as judgmental.
And so I think, again, invitations, just invitations to doing things, to inviting, to things that meet others where they're at, essentially. And so, you know, again, getting back to that idea of movement is that, hey, you want to go, you know, take a walk and not have it dripping with the implication that, you know, you need to start moving your body or, you know, you're this or you're that, some judgmental term, but just, you know, those invitations and these types of things, I think often it's really well meant, but I think that it can come off really in a. In a counter way, in a way that is unfortunately discouraging because the first person feels judged, and it can create a resistance to those things.
And so really, I really encourage invitations. But then realizing sometimes people won't take you up on an invitation, that's okay.
You know, we're putting them out there, and it's theirs to take if they'd like.
[00:39:14] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure.
And then one more thing that was sort of has been bouncing around in my head as we're talking.
What do you say when somebody comes back to you and it's like, man, if one more person tells me that I need to, you know, carry a water bottle around with me and drink more water, or if one more person tells me that I should eat more protein, like, I'm just gonna scream because I hear those messages all the freaking time and I still don't do them. Like, I can see the water bottle sitting across the room. It's still full. It's looking at me, it's judging me, and I'm still not drinking it. So what do you say to people like that?
[00:40:06] Speaker B: I didn't run across many of them, but I can see it from what you're saying. I definitely can see it.
You know, we get to make our own choices.
We get to make our own choices, and that's the way it should be. As long as. As long as we're not hurting anyone else, you know, we make choices for ourselves.
And so, you know, I think that what I hear with that is more about feeling judged.
And I think that that's where I would go with that kind of a comment. It's just that feeling of criticism and judgment.
I would not join in on trying to convince that person of the great benefits of that water consumption or really loading up on protein and Things like that, I think that would be a poor choice, but that would just be the judgment because I do think that that's one of the things that keeps people from making these kind of changes is the judgment.
I think that sometimes it is associated with maybe a goody two shoes type of thing or, you know, I think it's really, really important to be kind.
And I keep using the word invitations because that's really what it's about is it's inviting someone to do something differently, trying different ways to do. So what I'm trying to do is an invitation is, you know, an invitation to trying something that can improve your quality of life. But at the end of the day it's your choice and I respect that.
[00:41:46] Speaker C: So speaking of invitations, remind us of the name of your book and where can we find it?
[00:41:54] Speaker B: The book, it's a workbook and it's titled Our Primal 5. It's a simple five week guide to self care.
And so it's put together in a way where each of these five things is done in a weekly manner. So it's, you know, first begins with sunlight and then goes to sleep and then goes to movement and on.
And so the idea again is trying to focus on one thing at a time. It's weekly, but it doesn't need to be done weekly. It can be whatever pace works for you, has behavior change tips, it has information on the different effects of these behaviors in our lives, really trying to progressively improve each of them. And so we have the workbook. We have as well an app that is on the cusp of coming out that's trying to. My idea behind the app was to try to provide some more immediate feedback because that's one of the things that, as we said earlier that is a challenge in these regards is that we don't feel the immediate benefits often of these, some more than others. And that's a challenge with it. That's a difficulty is that many of the poor choices, they give that immediate positive experience.
And so the app is, you know, obviously there's a lot of information on it. You can do it with friends, there's a buddy system, things like that.
But I really, my idea in doing it was initially was again, let's get some more rapid feedback to folks about where they are in these regards.
All of it is, you know, links to, to these things are on our website, which is our Primal Five, the number five, our primal five dot com as well as, you know, newsletter link, as well as a little questionnaire you can fill out to kind of get an idea of where you are in these different areas because I think that's another thing is what, what is healthy, you know, what are healthy amounts of these. And so yeah, but it's our primal5.com well, that's fantastic.
[00:44:11] Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you so much, Matt, for, you know, coming in, having this chat.
It's, you know, fun to talk to somebody when we are so, so closely aligned on kind of what we do, what we focus on and, but yet getting a different perspective.
So I really appreciate it. Really enjoyed talking to you today.
[00:44:31] Speaker B: Yeah, it was great. Thank you for having me.
[00:44:34] Speaker A: Ready for more? Visit whatsworthwhile.net to listen to podcast episodes. Master your response to stress by reading my book, Stress Response, available through Amazon, or to get better before burnout sets in by requesting the free guide. Regardless of where you are in your journey, I'd love to hear from you and talk about how we might move forward together.
Please contact me, Ramsey Zimmerman, through the website or on social media like Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn or X. Thanks,
[00:45:11] Speaker B: Sat.
