Jason Ott, No Pain, No Problem: The Art of Healing

[00:00:11] Speaker A: What's worthwhile, worthy of our time, energy, belief and action. I'm Ramsey Zimmerman. To me, it's building mind, body and spirit wellness towards peace of mind, vitality of body and joy of spirit. Let's pursue these topics together to find holistic health and wellness. [00:00:31] Speaker B: That came first. Before the physical body healed, I needed to have that faith established that there was something and I was un okay with the unknown and would take that step forward. Then my mindset started to change in really number three was the physical body. So like, for me, I feel like my order was my spiritual practice came first and grounded me each day, which changed my thoughts, changed my habits, changed my actions, which was part of my mindset. And because of that, I could finally reap the benefits of my physical body. [00:01:06] Speaker A: Hey there. It's Ramsay here. That was Jason Ott. Jason has been acutely aware of health issues his whole life. When he was young, he took care of his mother, who beat cancer, but suffered for decades from the effects of chemotherapy. He. He himself developed ulcerative colitis and adrenal fatigue in his 20s. Jason didn't have health insurance at the time, so he went on a quest to change his diet and lifestyle, educating himself in herbalism and the food as medicine movement. Today, Jason is healthy, strong, and active, practicing in a medical clinic, working with clients to help them reverse their chronic illnesses. We spoke not only about his experience, but also about the various types of doctors and how their approaches vary, the importance of believing you can get better, and his eight principles for holistic health. If you're struggling but yearning to feel better than this episode and Jason's new book are for you. Let's get started. Hey, Jason, how are you doing today? [00:02:03] Speaker B: I'm doing great, Ramsey. How are you? [00:02:06] Speaker A: I am doing really well. Hey, thanks for coming out and speaking to me today. You are the owner of Empowered Prevention, which focuses on herbal nutrition and lifestyle consulting. And you also practice in a medical clinic. And your book is coming out this week called no cure, no problem, the Art of Healing and that. I have to say that is a pretty bold title, I think. So. What. What do you mean by that? No cure, no problem. [00:02:36] Speaker B: Well, I mean, so being that I'm not a medical doctor, I think one of the things that when I was wanting to share my story, people were like, well, you got to be careful. You can't go around making claims that don't exist. And so I like, well, I'm definitely not saying there's a cure. I was like, what I did is not a cure. It's not something that would necessarily work for someone else. And you gotta find your own path when you're trying to figure healing out. And I feel like that is in itself a form of an art. Like, you will have a unique journey ahead of you if you're gonna make that progress. So during my journey, I wasn't finding many cures, but I was finding people that did overcome their chronic illness through a series of lifestyle changes, using what they could with good medical doctors and finding the lifestyle changes they needed that they found themselves healing. And so then as I went through and was figuring out some of the people, I wanted to mirror this book after it was the people that actually did go in remission. And this was a common conversation that we had together was just because we don't have an existence, exact cure doesn't mean we can't improve your health with where you are now. So I wanted to make sure the title spoke very loudly, that I'm not claiming a cure, but I am saying it is possible to heal from things that a lot of people deem there's no coming back from. [00:04:05] Speaker A: Got it. That makes a lot of sense. So. So what was that like for you? You. You just mentioned that you came back from, you know, that you healed yourself, that you. That you came back from some difficult times. Let's go. Let's start kind of towards at the beginning. What was it like for you growing up? I understand your mother had serious health issues. Kind of. What was. What was that all about? [00:04:35] Speaker B: Yeah, she, for different reasons, is the reason why I got into health. But her being an identical twin and then having brain cancer. Fast forward. When I eventually got diagnosed with my colitis, my autoimmune condition, one of the very first things the doctor said was, well, you're born with this. It's genetic. There's nothing you can do. So I had to ask the question back. Well, my mom's an identical genetic twin and she's had cancer and she had all these health problems, but my mom's twin has never had cancer and it's still alive. So can you please list the other factors that maybe I can go address now? Because there has to be more than just genetics. You can't give me that blanket statement. I know that it matters, but explain that situation. So that is when that growing up, having that experience, living that though at the time was painful, ended up being one of the best blessings because it led me to figure out the answers I needed once I was a patient myself. So that was like a big eye opener. For me, anyway, of like, what are the other factors? Because we get kind of told it's just genes. [00:05:52] Speaker A: Right, right. Well, that's a. That's a very fascinating sort of case study that you live through with your mom, the fact that she was one of identical twins. Tell us more about kind of how that played out with your mom. [00:06:12] Speaker B: Well, so I got into health because she technically didn't die from cancer. She beat cancer. We got it cut out. Like she had a surgery is on her frontal lobe. And she actually went back to work, and for a year or two, seemed like things are going to be fine. But then her body started breaking down slowly, slowly losing function. Her balance, her cognitive function. And so we just went in this series of medical tests over the next years. So it made me want to learn how do we keep the body strong? So to study exercise science, to learn the right things to put in the body. Because I was watching her deteriorate, so to speak, and it was like, heaven forbid, was there something we can do here? And so that experience is what launched me into the first part of school. Then I realized that's just the tip of the iceberg, and you have to dive into all the specifics for individuals that there's not a one size fits all. So having. [00:07:11] Speaker A: How old were you? How old were you at that point. [00:07:15] Speaker B: With school or when, like, when your. [00:07:18] Speaker A: Mom passed and stuff? [00:07:20] Speaker B: Well, so she got diagnosed when I was around five, six years old. But then she didn't pass away until I was in my mid-20s. So she was in a nursing home by 49 years old. And that's just because of watching that slow decline. So the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota eventually told us, it's not medical. This is. You guys need to find physical therapists, you need to find nutritionists, you need to find people to strengthen this woman's body. That's what got me into the schooling and the direction in my career was trying to figure out, okay, well, why'd it take eight years to get this information? [00:08:00] Speaker A: And then. And then what happened to you? [00:08:05] Speaker B: I thought I was on the right path, and in some cases I was. But then I slowly, I think largely I partaked in that. Like, I coped wrong with using drugs, alcohol, that type of thing, especially my teenage years, just because I was part of the caretaking team. And that led to my digestive system breaking down. I was eating the way that they say to do in diet culture, to be, you know, have. Have muscles, have low body fat. And I learned that that's not always what's best for your internal organs. You might look good on the outside, but it's not always what's best for the inside. So that led me to then having high blood pressure, getting blood in my stools, and eventually being diagnosed with colitis. [00:08:54] Speaker A: Okay, so you get diagnosed with colitis and you go to see doctors, and what do the doctors tell you? [00:09:04] Speaker B: Well, really? So that's a unique situation. So I didn't have insurance when I first got diagnosed, so which again, was horrible at the time because I was like, this is not good. This is not going to be a play out very well for me. But it forced me to have to look into those other areas. So that is what prompted my question back to the doctors. If you're saying the only thing I can do is get shots, pills, or surgery, and I just wait for this to get worse over my life until I need a surgery, what else can I do? And so that year that I didn't have that health insurance, that's when I was like, well, what do I have? I have a grocery budget. I can change the way I eat. I can learn to manage my stress better. I can start to do what I can do until I figure out and get insurance. And over that next year, that's when I found the doctors of lifestyle medicine and I started to actually lower blood pressure, increase the frequency of my bowels, have less blood in my stool. So by the time I got insurance, I had made some significant progress, was not healed at all. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of progress to be made. But due to how much success I did have, and I was not in the chronic state I was when I first got diagnosed, then it just kept me going. So at that point, I had more specific questions for doctors on, well, how come I've made this progress if you're saying it's impossible? You know what I mean? Like, the conversation got deeper and more expansive. [00:10:38] Speaker A: That's really interesting. So, okay, so at that point, what did you do from there? So, you know, you started to get more treatment, you made more progress and sort of, I guess, sort of finish the story of your healing journey. [00:11:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So that led me to herbalism and being able to take and learn the healing properties of the feeds we can buy in the store, but then also the herbs that I could get my hands on. That is where my study started there. And so the more I learned, I could afford it, I understood it, I could apply it to myself, and I could see results that led me into finding then in my Own city, some people in alternative medicine and integrative medicine to where then they had healing things like ozone saunas, hyperbaric chambers, nutrient IVs, other therapies that made more sense with the progress I made and that complemented what I was already doing with lifestyle medicine and herbalism. And so then over the next two years or so, each one of my symptoms systematically started getting less until they were gone. And then I finally found the Holy Grail, which was more of the clinical information that I needed from, like, Dr. Dean Ornish, who has reversed heart disease and prostate cancers. I found other doctors that reverse lupus and Ms. And they're just using food and doing it in a very specific way. But since I was learning that, I went all in. I was like, well, everyone should have a chance to do this because this is literally what we were asking for in my mom's situation. [00:12:39] Speaker A: Yes. Well, no, it's so powerful, the notion of food as medicine. And yet a little bit, I'll, I'll insert a little bit about me. I'm working on a sort of in the middle of a 12 month nutritional therapy practitioner program through Nutritional Therapy association. And we're, I'm learning all about that stuff. And then also this podcast is very much focused on, or I should say broadly interested in mind, body and spirit, wellness and healing. And, you know, I hear you talking about, you know, finding the healing through, through food, but there's more to it than that, right? And there talk to me about sort of the mind, body and spirit connections and also sort of the different roles that those play, because I know that those play important parts in healing. It's not, you know, it's not exclusively and only what you eat, but it's also having to do with things with, with mind and spirit. So talk to me about that for a while. [00:13:53] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Well, when I reflected back on it, one of my good friends is actually, he's a clinical psychologist. So luckily I was able to chat with this guy and he kept saying, you know, you can't heal the body without your mind, can't heal the body without your mind. Like, you have to make your mind up that you're willing to do this and push forward, because some people just won't. And I even took that a step further was I didn't care about the health of my body to that degree until I understood my purpose spiritually. And so when I look back is like, I didn't take action on trying to improve my health until I had enough belief that it could happen. And that started with me rooting myself, learning to meditate, developing a spiritual practice, and, like, trying to understand what my role in this universe is. So, like, that came first. Before the physical body healed, I needed to have that faith established that there was something and I was un okay with the unknown and would take that step forward. Then my mindset started to change. Well, maybe I'll try this instead, and maybe I'll do that in really, number three was the physical body. So, like, for me, I feel like my order was. My spiritual practice came first and grounded me each day in the person I wanted to be now and in the future, which changed my thoughts, changed my habits, changed my actions, which was part of my mindset. And because of that, I could finally reap the benefits in my physical body. So I don't know how you can improve your physical body if you don't at least address the other two to some capacity. And so part of what I write about in the book is trying to paint that picture that people that hit a wall with their physical healing often have hit a wall with their spiritual and emotional health, too. And I don't know how it doesn't go hand in hand. [00:16:01] Speaker A: Yeah, I totally hear you. And, you know, I think in sort of traditional Western medicine, we often get messages that, you know, it's. It's about taking this pill and it's about not eating that thing, and it's about, you know, you have to do this and not do that exclusively. But the more people that I talk to, the more I hear and sort of believe that you have to have. You have to at least be open to the possibility of healing. And I would take it further. You have to believe that, you know, that you can heal. And I've heard you say before that, you know, I think everyone believes that they can get sick, but not everyone believes that they can get well. [00:17:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:01] Speaker A: And that's just really kind of profound. You want to comment on that? [00:17:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I. That was kind of a gut punch when I really started working in the field, because, like, meeting people, I'm always going to have the highest good in mind for them and their health outcome. I'm not going to be delusional about it. I'm going to be realistic. But I want to see that person achieve it. And early on, I might have wanted that more than the person. And I mistaked them saying, you know, as we talk. [00:17:35] Speaker A: Responsibility. Yeah, what a responsibility to want someone else's healing more than they do. [00:17:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And that could also backfire a little bit more on, you too. Sometimes it can. [00:17:50] Speaker A: Absolutely. You can't stay there. Like, that might be your starting point, but you're going to have to move beyond that. You're gonna. They are gonna have to move beyond that. [00:17:59] Speaker B: Bingo. That was it. 100 was like, just because they could say, oh, that's awesome, you healed, or, that's great. I believe that doctor's doing that. Or this person, when they left the office, they didn't believe they could do that themselves. So they knew the sickness was there, and that was open to anyone getting it. But that was a gut punch that it was like, okay, how do we navigate this? What conversations do I need to have up front? Because I need to know if this person does. Because if I can identify if they even believe that they can go through this process, it's all for not. You know, what I mean is like, so many, for example, like what I teach with food in the degree, yes, I can move the needle for someone, but I understand not everyone's going to want to make all those changes that I do nutritionally. So it's like, it doesn't matter the degree that I can take someone if they aren't going to take the step forward consistently enough to get the result. So I need to be able to identify what they're willing to do, what they believe they can do, and then give them those tools. Even if I have all this other stuff that I know would help them, it's irrelevant if they don't believe or will take action on it. [00:19:14] Speaker A: Right. Well, and there's a ton of fear, and you know that. And it eb. It takes away from people's hope when they get diagnoses, especially if they're getting a diagnosis around something that is likely to be terminal or if it's something that is likely to be something that the doctor is sort of telling them, you're going to have this for the rest of your life, and we're going to sort of address it. And then what I hear you saying is that people need to. They. They can't really operate out of that fear. They can't heal in that area of fear. They need to be. They need to be in something else in different place in their mind and their spirit in order for even the treatments to really be effective. [00:20:12] Speaker B: Agree. Yeah, that's exactly it. Because it's like, you know, I had some ideological beliefs, and it's easy to get those until you start living it. But even, you know, we know the toxicity of things like radiation and chemotherapy. But I can also introduce you to people that have used those and now are cancer free. But how they did it, all the other aspects, that all matters. So it's like, I get you want to never have to use those things, but if you don't believe you can heal without them, I'm not going to try to convince you of that because that's not going to help you in any way, shape or form. So it's like, how fast can I understand what they actually believe for themselves is right and then give them the tools that fall in alignment with that. [00:21:03] Speaker A: Yes. So as you said, you yourself are not a doctor, but what do you believe? What do you see is the role of doctors? And I know that you work in a medical clinic and there are many different types of doctors who practice. You know, we're, we're here in America and that's sort of what I'm thinking about at the moment. And I think most Americans are very familiar with what we would call an allopathic doctor, although even that phrase might not be. Be familiar to everyone. That just might be what they kind of always get and have never really thought about. What, what are the different kinds of doctors? But what. Tell me about sort of the different types of doctors and, and how are they different and what are their roles? [00:21:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So I think overall, medications and pharmaceuticals, making sure all of those medical parts are taken care of and the oversight that that patient is safe, because I might have an idea of specific herbs that might be beneficial, but I need to be able to speak with that doctor and we can talk about the pathology of them and then make sure this is the right fit. Right. So I think they're up here looking over all of it, the, the big picture of all the forms of medicine, all the layers and making sure that person's safe. And yes, this can work this way. Then I'm a step below that to where it's like I'm trying to help the doctor's plans get carried out, that their lifestyle is gonna fall in alignment, that they're actually gonna listen to the advice and if not, relate that back up of like, this is why the patient's not doing it. And I don't know if you guys have talked about it and share that. So in our practice, we work with everyone's doctors because we're no one's primary care. So people seek out our clinic for the specialty therapies. So we have the most allopathic western doctor, and then we'll have a functional medicine doctor or we'll have a naturopathic send their Patients here. So we try to blend and fill those gaps in no matter where they're at. So in this case, like, there's plenty of great western docs that only understand how to prescribe and diagnose from the allopathic model, but they absolutely know there's other things that work. And so they will send and write scripts and say, hey, you need to go do the vitamin C treatment, you need to change your diet, you need to do whatever it is, and they'll send them over here. So I think the biggest thing is, like, their ability to diagnose, find out, and then determine the right testing to know exactly what's going on is a huge advantage for me, because then I can then give the raw ingredients to, hey, this helps your liver, this helps your kidney. From a food and nutritional standpoint, something. [00:24:08] Speaker A: That I frequently get confused about are the differences between, like, functional doctors and naturopathic doctors. Can you speak to that difference a little bit? [00:24:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that they're all overarching looking. I mean, depending on what state you live in, some naturopaths can change and take people on and off medications, depending on the state. Usually the functional docs, if you're an aprn that's practicing alternative medicine, you can do the changing of prescriptions and the adjustments to them, or call in and write some of prescription. I think where they vary is what they believe the treatment model should be and the patient, patient's responsibility in that treatment. So, like with functional medicine, I would even say naturopathic lifestyle, they all believe the patient has to do something with how they live, how they manage their stress, how do they move physically, the foods that they eat. But then they're anchored to their specific beliefs on how that has changed. So like functional medicine, the first thing I think of is understand the body's toxicity and the toxic load and optimize hormones so that you also make sure metabolically you're healthy. When I go naturopathic, they can kind of get a more medical version of herbalism, I would say, because they have a lot of knowledge of what I do. But they have that medical background, too, lifestyle medicine. They're big on, like, you need to change everything, your community, how you manage your stress, you definitely will change your diet. All these factors in prevention of the disease going forward. So they're more about epigenetics and saying, your genetics don't decide your fate. With disease, it's how your genes are expressed, and that is determined by how you live. So each of them weight the causation of a disease a little differently. And so then they address that in their own practice that way. That's how I view it anyway. And then in integrative medicine or alternative, I've found more of those doctors, they might have any of those. Those letters or. Or college degrees behind them that we're talking about. But what they do and see most is, I'm going to help you here. You're going to need to find these professionals. No matter what these layers, you must address these organ systems in your body. And so they're more apt to just have a bigger network of professionals. Tend to find them in more integrative centers where they're all working together. [00:26:57] Speaker A: Got it. Yeah. No, that's. That's helpful. So in your book, you do a nice job of going through the principles of holistic health, as you see those. It'd be great to kind of go through some of that stuff right now. I'm sure that we won't have time to go through all of it, but if you wanted to, you know, give our listeners maybe a preview or a primer or some, you know, starting points of the principles of their holistic health. Where. Where would you like to start? What would you like to. What would you like to share? [00:27:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I tried to frame it up, and I don't. You know, after you write a book, you're like, did I. Was I clear on that? I don't know. I was trying to be clear. I was starting to be clear. [00:27:55] Speaker A: That's what. That's what reviews are for. They'll. They'll let you know. Right, right, right. [00:28:01] Speaker B: The principles I put in there are specifically taken only from the people that I've seen reverse or heal the illness that they shouldn't have. So usually they're cancer or autoimmune in the autoimmune world, anything from Ms. To lymes to lupus. So some of the more severe things. So those eight different principles I wrote about in the book were taken from each of the testimonials I shared or the people you meet that had success coming to see us. They all live these. So I can't say that it's specific to a form of medicine or schooling. It's specific to my experience and what I've seen work for people. So, like, understanding your disease timeline is number one. You didn't get sick yesterday. This was building up in your body for years and decades at times. Same with toxicity, same with nutrient deficiencies, same with genetic mutations. Like these things take time to change in your body. So all the people that have had success look at their health that way and say, how did I get here? You know, what was my emotional health like? Did I go through trauma when I was a kid that really messed up how my body interacts inflammatory wise like in my day to day life. So giving that the right respect allows you to know what intensity you need to do to actually make progress. And I think sometimes we label something. [00:29:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:33] Speaker B: As just this one thing. And it really isn't just one thing. [00:29:37] Speaker A: It's all deep is how deep is the seed, right? [00:29:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the second one is bio. Individuality is like you are an individual. And so the more you can look at your situation from that scope and not just copy people to copy people, but connect the dot for your biology, that's when your health starts to change majorly. So it's like don't just do the same diet because somebody else did or whatever the routine is. Take what makes sense for you and then find the remaining pieces because It'll never fit 100% of the time. [00:30:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like putting in. It's like doing your homework. Right. It's like putting in the, the effort to discover what the, what the things are that you need among the universe of possibilities. [00:30:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I completely agree in what you said earlier about it's, you know, there's an emotional and a spiritual component. That's. The third one is like, do you believe you can actually get well? So a fun question we'll ask is like, do you believe like people can heal? Like. Oh yeah, definitely. Do you believe you can? And it's very interesting what comes out of that person's mouth next if anything. But that starts with your beliefs about yourself, your self limiting beliefs and, and the big things you hold true to your heart. So it's like you gotta get right to the point with those things, I think. [00:31:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's. It must ebb and flow. Right. And you know, someone once said that even with the faith of a mustard seed that you could do great and amazing things to paraphrase, but that it must be, you know, not sort of simple or obvious. I imagine there's a lot of long pauses when you ask them that question of whether or not they believe that they can heal. [00:31:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's interesting, I don't think anyone's answer has been the same because it usually tails off into a story before they give me the answer. So it's almost like telling me why they don't believe it before they tell me they don't believe it or scared to. You know, you said something about fear earlier. It's scary to believe that you're going to accomplish something that most people don't believe in. And that's a fear to overcome as well. [00:32:14] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, let's keep going. What's the next one? [00:32:18] Speaker B: Be patient. So the natural cell regeneration process. So some people call it the cells turning over in your body. Every cell in the body has a program, cell death. Some happen sooner due to how we live and some tail on longer. But if you are looking for the body itself to get stronger and organs to change and toxicity to leave, you can optimize it, but you can't speed it up. You're not going to take something that built up for four decades in your body and be done with it in four weeks. It's going to take some time. So it's like frame that expectation to let it play out so you're not feeling like you're getting let down all the time in viewing it in that window. [00:33:12] Speaker A: And that, that flies in the face of what people want. That's the wrong answer, man. You should say that. It's going to be quick, it's going to be fast. You've the answer for me. [00:33:26] Speaker B: Yes, it, it is. [00:33:28] Speaker A: Yeah, maybe that. But then, you know, do you see progress faster than that though? Right? [00:33:37] Speaker B: Exactly. It's like I would rather under promise and over deliver. Right. It says like, make sure, like you're going to see positive changes. I just don't want you to think there is a cure, that this nightmare is just going to be magically over and you can go back to, you know, eating fast food and drinking on the weekend every weekend and everything's going to be fine because that's just not the reality. And I feel like I don't want to set people up with the wrong frame of mind when they're really in this because I've lived it. [00:34:11] Speaker A: Yes, that's good. [00:34:15] Speaker B: I think then the next one is learn the extremes, live the gray. I hinted at it before is like what I did and how I was able to make progress. I had to be extremely strict. I had to hyper nourish for almost two years straight. I never had a bite of fast food. I mean, I gave that up completely. I never had to drink alcohol. I never had any candy. I did nothing. I mean, I followed it to a T because of how severe I was sick. I don't believe that's for everybody. So I'm not going to be ideological and say everyone can do this, come do my program. Like, no. So it's like, learn from the extremes that healing is possible. And then I could give you this other doctor that they did it this way and this other clinic, they did it this way. But what we're learning from there is you can improve your health. You now need to go back to bio individuality and figure out what you need to do specifically to move the needle. So it's a way for me to. To try to prove to the person this is a very real thing. The real problem is not that you can and your body can get healthier. The real problem is figuring out something you can do consistently enough to get the same result because all of our bodies can do this. But that's not the real issue here. [00:35:35] Speaker A: And that's what living in the gray is, right? That you understand what the extremes are. But it's really difficult to imagine or practice all the time. Perfection. [00:35:50] Speaker B: Right? And it's. I mean, it just doesn't happen. Right? So it's like, right. The Healing Thyself chapter is more about recognizing, I think, your advocacy, your responsibility in your healing. You cannot just take a back seat to these doctor's visits. Even if it's super confusing, you have to participate some way somebody's not going to come in and just fix all the problems for you. So it's like it's participatory medicine. Like you have to be and participate in that medicine too, or lifestyle change. So it's like that's my way of trying to get people to see, like, I wish we could just step back and get taken care of, but it's just not the reality. So it's like, you will be rewarded if you can do that. The narrator's view is more of a thought of disassociating to the emotions that you're living it. Because we don't think clearly when we're emotionally under stress. So I tried to give a few strategies. I was lucky enough to have people in my life that I trusted well enough to give me the hard truth, to cut through the BS of the delusion in my own brain that I was going to do something and say, look man, I get it, but this is the reality around it. I don't think you're seeing it clearly. This is what you should think about. That was huge. That was huge for me. [00:37:29] Speaker A: Are you saying that people should find someone who can be their narrator? Are you saying that people need to try to be their own narrator sometimes or both? [00:37:42] Speaker B: I think a little bit of both, actually. I talked to myself a lot since I was a kid. So it was very. It was a little bit more natural to have that internal dialogue. But learning through psychology, not everybody has that voice in their head that says, that might be a bad idea or maybe you need to do this. So it's like respecting that of like, you might need to find a doctor, you might need to find a friend, you might need to find. I don't know who it is going to be for you. That's a very specific question for that person's life. But having that safe space to be brutally honest and open, we're all gonna lie to ourselves to some degree. I think that I have. I've narrated stories in my head to make me feel better about myself at different points in my life. And I feel like that's a common human thing. So calling a spade a spade, make sure you're not doing that, because the cost is gonna be your health and your life. And that's. That's a very serious thing. [00:38:51] Speaker A: Well, it's like the notion of a reliable narrator versus an unreliable narrator. [00:38:58] Speaker B: Right? That's a good way to put it. Yeah. [00:39:04] Speaker A: All right. And that's seven, right? [00:39:07] Speaker B: Seven. And then the final one is it takes a village. So number eight is that. And that's where I just believe integrative medicine is powerful for a lot of reasons. It gives you a chance to not be perfect or need everything to go exactly right. Because you're not choosing just one modality. You're relying on the health of your mind, body, and spirit. You're finding, you know, you got your medical doctor, you have your diet to help you out. Maybe you have some people helping you resolving trauma in psychology with some EMDR therapy, but you're. You're attacking what you're dealing with chronically from multiple angles. And for me and many of the people I wrote about and shared their testimonies, we have this fear that we got to be perfect, else it's not going to play out, it's not going to get the result we want. And when it comes to our health, that fear, I think, is amplified more. And so when you can say, well, I understand what the statistics say, but that they're telling you, this is the statistic, if you only chose to do just the pill or just the surgery, but you're not. You're working on your past trauma with your psychologist, you're also going to change your diet. You're not the statistic anymore, because the statistic doesn't use a village. So it's like my way of trying to quell some of that fear around having an illness. [00:40:35] Speaker A: Well, and it's like you're building your team and, you know, you're, you're figuring out your strategy of how you're gonna beat this, beat the odds, beat the statistics. And, you know, every, every statistic is some form of average. Right. So who's to say that you can't be on the better side of whatever that number is? [00:40:59] Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. [00:41:03] Speaker A: Well, it's a great book and the framework is great. The stories that you have in there, stories from real people, real clients, real friends of yours, in addition to your own life story and what you experienced with your mom and all of that. I just want to thank you for not just coming on the show, but thank you for your work. You know, thank you for putting all of this together, for, you know, creating a, a really nice story and packaging up your experiences and putting it out there in the universe in addition to the work that you do all the time in your clinic. So, you know, tell me, where can people find the book and where can people learn more about you? [00:42:04] Speaker B: Well, appreciate, I appreciate the compliments as long as it helps a couple of people to live a little different life than I had. That's all I want. The so the. You can find more information on my website@empowered prevention.com have a tab on there that takes you right to the book. But you can find the book no Cure, no problem on Amazon.com barnes and nobles.com and a lot of other online retailers. Those are just some of the major ones. But to get more information across all of that, visiting the website would be the best. And to be in contact too, if you wanted to reach out about anything. [00:42:46] Speaker A: Fantastic. Great talking to you today. I look forward to and hope that we speak again. [00:42:52] Speaker B: Yeah, this is a very good conversation and thank you for giving a platform for this. I mean, I think the world needs more opportunity to hear these things. So I appreciate you doing this for people too. [00:43:03] Speaker A: Absolutely. Where to go from here Visit what's worthwhile Net to learn more about me, Ramsey Zimmerman. And please reach out to me and let me know what you think. I don't want this podcast to be some message in a bottle thrown out to sea. I want to hear back from you. Please send me a message or an email or hit me up on X, LinkedIn or Instagram. And please leave a rating and review for the what's Worthwhile podcast on Apple, Spotify, Iheart or Amazon.