[00:00:11] Speaker A: What's worthwhile? It's a question we all need to answer for ourselves. I'm Ramsay Zimmerman. As for me, it's building mind, body and spirit wellness. Let's ponder the big questions together as we seek peace of mind, vitality of body, and joy of spirit.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: Despite the outer chaos, you can have some inner peace. Just the idea of this type of practice, if you're just kind of freeing yourself and you're creating kind of a new normal for you, whereas previous to that, you, you didn't realize that your normal person was a much more anxious, worried person, carrying around emotional and physical stress, and you just took it as normal because you didn't know any better. But when you begin this type of practice, it frees you emotionally and physically as well.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: Hey there, it's Ramsay here. That was Rich Lewis. Rich is a frequent speaker to church groups about something that is both simple and profound, the idea of centering prayer. I think many Christians often feel driven in their faith to perform, to talk a good game, to make promises about what we will achieve, even to God during prayer. I know I struggle with this sometimes, but Rich promotes a different approach to connecting with God through prayer, one that feels much more like Eastern style meditation, but with some crucial differences. In the what's Worthwhile podcast, I seek and explore means to build mind, body and spirit wellness. I think Rich has hit on and talks about a straightforward and powerful means of doing just that. See what you think. Jump in. Hey, Rich, how you doing today?
[00:02:01] Speaker B: Great, great. Thanks for having me on. I look forward to our conversation.
[00:02:05] Speaker A: Right on. You know, it seems, it seems counterintuitive somehow to have a podcast episode about silence or talking about being quiet, but that's what, that's basically what we're going to do.
Let's talk about that. Let's talk about the value of silence, specifically sitting still, focusing on God and listening.
I think you'd call this centering prayer. So let me ask you directly, what is centering prayer?
[00:02:37] Speaker B: Sure.
So centering prayer, the practice itself has been around for about 50 years, and it was actually created in the early 1970s by three Trappist monks.
One of them, I guess they saw that the secular community had a lot of practices and they wanted something for the Christian community. And One of the three Trappist monks, William Manager, was reading a 12th century classic book called the Cloud of Unknowing. And as he read it in his mind, kind of a method of silent, wordless prayer seemed to jump out of the pages that he was reading. So he began Practicing, and I'll share what it is. And he began talking with the other two priests. So it was Thomas Keating, Basil Pennington and William Eninger. They just happened to be Catholic priests and Trappist monks.
They began kind of refining this practice. They began having other clergy practice it, they began having public practice it. Because it's not something that just clergy can do. Anybody can benefit from it. So the practice itself has been around since the early 1970s. Obviously the idea of just sitting in silence has been around for thousands of years. That's not a 50 year practice.
And then centering prayer is really considered two things. It's considered, it is considered meditation, but it's also considered deepening in a relationship with God. Because during centering prayer, we believe we're opening to the presence and actions of God within us. So, so we are meditating, but we're letting go and opening to the presence of God within us during this time. And how you do centering prayer is you sit comfortably with your eyes closed. And then to kick off your prayer time, you interiorly recite a sacred, what we call a sacred word. It can be 1, 2, 3 syllables. It could be love, it could be Jesus, it could be a color, it could be ocean, it could be trust.
And then as you're sitting there in silence, when you begin engaging your thoughts, and what I mean by that is when you begin thinking about the things you're going to do after your sit and any errands you have to do later today, or you're thinking about things you were doing before you were sitting in silence, you realize you're now sitting with yourself and your thoughts and planning and plotting. So you reintroduce that sacred word interiorly to come back to the present moment. And the purpose of your sit, which is just to sit and open to the presence and actions of God within and let go of you and all of your thoughts. So you simply use the sacred word, not as a mantra where you're saying it over and over again, but when needed to remind yourself to come back to the present moment. So when you think of when you're engaging your thoughts, you would kind of replace the engaged thought with the sacred word, but then you also let go of the word and just use it when needed to keep returning to the present moment. So sometimes you catch yourself and you don't need to use the word. Other times, suddenly you catch yourself and realize, there I go again. But so essentially that's a little bit about centering prayer, how long it's been around how it was created and then kind of a quick, you know, steps of how you do it.
[00:05:58] Speaker A: Yes, there's a lot to unpack there. But first I want to hear more about you. How did you discover and become so interested in centering prayer?
[00:06:09] Speaker B: Sure, I had always been interested in silence, nature and solitude. I mean, I enjoy being around people, but I also enjoy solitude. So prior I found centering prayer in late 2013, but prior to that I would just kind of sit in silence. And it was. And I had read a gentleman by the name of Carl McColman. I had read some of his books in 2011, 2012, and he talked a lot about contemplative prayer and sitting in silence. I don't remember him talking about a practice called centering prayer. So at that time I would just sit in silence. And I remember finding it extremely hard and brutal.
But as I was perusing Amazon looking for a book to read in late 2013, and I came across a book called Healing the Divide, Recovering Christianity's Mystic Roots by Amos Smith. And in his book, he talked about a practice called centering prayer that he had been doing for actually even 20 years up until that point. So that immediately piqued my interest because it was a form of silent meditative prayer. And I knew I needed some help. I didn't know how to sit in silence and do it right. And so when I discovered it in his book, I began trying the practice for myself and I reached out to him as well and we began a back and forth email dialogue. But I guess it helped me learn how to sit in silence. I needed the sacred word. I needed something to help me with my engaged thoughts. I needed a practice that would open me up to the silence. So I discovered centering prayer in this book on Amazon when I was just. When I was just curious and looking for my next book to read.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: And what has the practice of centering prayer done for you? How has it helped?
[00:07:55] Speaker B: Sure, because I've been now I've been at centering prayer really for about 10 years now. So if I the fruits of the practice, I'll call them what God has graced me with. Because during centering prayer, I think of it as a reverse prayer. I'm getting out of the way and God's praying in me what God knows I need, whether it's whatever fruits those might be long term fruits or even short term fruits that I might need. But definitely when I if I kind of reflect on myself prior to centering prayer and after centering prayer, I'm a Much more calmer person.
I'm more able to like if there's outer chaos. I'm more able to not get, slow down my anxiety and just take a pause and then learn how to deal with a stressful situation better than I historically could have. I'm definitely a much more confident person in myself.
I'm more willing just to sit and listen to people and not be so quick to render an opinion. And I would say it's also just given me an excitement for life and opening up to today and, and what neat things will happen today.
So it's just blessed me with some really neat fruits. And if I think about after centering prayer, you know, I still work a day job and I work remotely from home and I'm very happy about that. But I've also since centering prayer, I have my website, silenceteaches.com I have a book that I published in August of 2020, kind of in the middle of COVID which was probably a perfect time to have this type of book out to the public. I do some one on one coaching and speaking. So it just spawned things that were not even on the radar screen. The website was not on the radar screen. The idea of publishing a book was not on the radar screen. Speaking, going on podcasts, and even doing the one on one coaching, none of that was there. And centering prayer spawned it all.
[00:09:57] Speaker A: So what kind of, what kind of benefits do you think might people get from, from starting to do centering prayer?
[00:10:05] Speaker B: I would say simply because it can help despite the outer chaos, you can have some inner peace. So a meditative practice such as centering prayer can help with fear, can help with anxiety. Because during centering prayer, it's a gesture of letting go of your engaged thoughts. And your engaged thoughts include fear, wary, anxiety, and just returning to the present moment. So just the idea of this type of practice, if you do it on a daily basis and all of a sudden years have passed, it does a lot to you. You're releasing repressed thoughts you didn't know you have. You're releasing thoughts that you knew you have. And you're also releasing tension in your body. It just seems to happen when you sit and meditate. You're releasing tension wherever you might hold it in your body, your forehead, your shoulders, your stomach. So you're just kind of freeing yourself and you're creating kind of a new normal for you. Whereas previous to that you, you didn't realize that your normal person was a much more anxious, worried person, carrying around emotional and physical stress and you just took it as normal because you didn't know any better. But when you begin this type of practice, it frees you emotionally and physically as well over the long haul.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: Right, right. I can see that.
And how does centering prayer get compared to other forms of meditation or other forms of prayer? Like, do you see it as similar to other forms of meditation? And how do people often compare it?
[00:11:49] Speaker B: So I guess. I guess it's similar to just meditation because it is meditation, but then it's more. But then I think of it as centered prayer practitioners, for that matter, thinking of it think of it as opening to the presence and actions of God within. And we think of it as we're sitting with God and we're letting God act in us during this time, rather than someone that might just practice meditation is not thinking of it as a relationship with God. They're thinking of it as meditation, relaxing. And I'm thinking of it really as both where I am meditating, but it. I'm now sitting with God and opening up to God. And it's. It's a, It's a. It's a prayer. It's. It's a different way of praying. Rather than me talking, it's me just sitting with God and letting God act in me at a deeper level beyond my thoughts and emotions.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: Okay, so sitting with God, spending time with God.
You mentioned also a word like a sacred word. Tell us more about that. How does, how does someone select a word, choose a word?
How. And then how do they use that word?
[00:13:02] Speaker B: Okay, so the sacred word.
And actually I use an image. So I'll say you can, you can really do three things. You can use a word if you're more of a auditory person and you need to kind of hear it interiorly. If you're a visual person, which I really realized I'm more of a visual person. So I use an image, and I kind of picture an image in my head. And my image is actually Jesus icon that I saw in a Richard Rohr meditation that I was reading once. It just sort of, when I saw that, I thought, I think I need to use that as my sacred word. So you can use an image if you're more of a visual person. You can use your breath if you're more of a physical person. And then the gentleman that I mentioned who I discovered centering prayer, Amos Smith in his book Healing the Divide, he actually keeps his eyes open and just stares at a spot, kind of three to six, four feet on the ground to keep himself grounded in the present. Moment. So your sacred word can be a word, an image, your breath, or even just keeping your eyes open.
But if you're using a word, for example, I guess generally when we're teaching people, we generally will say a word to keep it simple and one to two syllables because you don't want to be reciting real long word in your head. So probably 1, 2, 3 syllables at the most.
And something that comes to mind where trust. Maybe you're tr. You're going to trust during this time or if you. Or color or ocean maybe. But I'll say the wrong word would be if you're using ocean. And then during your whole time of your silent sit, all you're doing is thinking about how wonderful the beach is. And I can't wait until I go there again. Then that's probably the wrong word because you're not opening to the presence and actions of God, you're opening to the presence and actions of the beach. But so that's a little bit about the sacred words. You can use a word, an image, your breath, and then if you're using a word, make it a shorter word, but one that you're using just to come back to the present moment because then you let go of it. You're not honing in on the word and you're not meditating upon the word. It's just used to bring you back to the present moment.
[00:15:18] Speaker A: Gotcha. So the word brings you back to the present moment. And it's not as much about the word as it is about using that to help you focus.
Focusing sometimes is difficult.
Do you find that people, especially beginners, have trouble focusing or difficulties with this practice, especially at first. And. And what do you do about that?
[00:15:46] Speaker B: Sure, I think they do. So what I do, I try to. One for someone that's interested in some type of contemplative prayer practice, I suggest try it for 30 days. I'll suggest make it the first thing you do in the morning before you begin your day. And that's what I do it twice a day. But my first sit is before I do anything. So try it for 30 days, make it the first thing you do before you do anything else. And then perhaps set it for anywhere from one to five minutes so it doesn't seem as daunting. And what I've discovered, because I've done some talks in front of church groups and adult faith groups at churches and we'll together do a five minute sit and most people will say it wasn't as hard and as long and as Dreadful as I thought it would be. So that's what I would suggest for someone brand new is do it in the morning first thing, do it for one to five minutes and try it for 30 days. And then after the 30 day period, just reflect on do I like this? Does this practice resonate with me, do I want to continue it? And then if so, you can begin thinking about extending, you know, how long it is.
[00:16:55] Speaker A: So I've been trying this out. I've been practicing this for a couple of weeks now, since we first spoke.
And you know, the way that I think, I. My thoughts are definitely normally in words. I guess I'm more of an auditory person.
And I've discovered that if I try to quiet my thoughts, I still have ideas. And even if they're not articulated, it's. It's like they start to form images or they are there, but they're not articulated. They're kind of like meta thoughts, images that haven't formed yet, words that haven't formed yet. And it's kind of odd to try to not let them articulate in my mind.
Do you know what I mean? Like, does that make any sense? Have you heard of that before?
[00:17:50] Speaker B: It kind of makes sense. I mean, I mean, I think when we're sitting in silence, everybody thinks differently. So this is just the way you think, the way you process things. So this is just part of the natural process, even for, you know, even me and people that have been practicing for a long time. Some of our silent sits are noisier than others. So in some cases we're constantly thinking thoughts and our minds racing and then in other instances we're not as racing. So I think it's just part of the natural process. And the brain is always thinking thoughts and engaging thoughts, whether we like it or not.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: You know, I guess a more common or traditional way to pray from a Christian perspective is to think of words and talk to God and tell him what's on our mind in a variety of ways. Do you think that centering prayer and being still and quiet and sitting with God, is that something that you combine with sort of a more traditional type of Christian prayer where you're, you know, pouring your heart out and expressing yourself to God? Do you combine those two often?
[00:19:05] Speaker B: No, I think, yeah, I think centering prayer, I encourage people, don't, don't remove your other forms of prayer that you practice and that you enjoy. And I do, and I, and I practice verbal prayer as well. So I just think of it as, it's another way to complement Your existing practice where you're talking to God and then in this instance, you're just sitting with God and you're letting God talk to you in, in a way. So it's really, it is prayer. It's just allowing the conversation to be two, two people. You know, you're talking to God and then you're being quiet and you're letting God talk to you through your silent sit.
[00:19:44] Speaker A: Yes. So listening to God in the silence and how do you hear from God? Do you hear from God that way? Do you hear from God other ways? Do you do other things to hear from God? What's all that like for you?
[00:20:02] Speaker B: I guess what I do is I incorporate other practices. So for example, outside of centering prayer, I'll do journaling where I'll just jot down things that I think God is nudging me to do and that maybe God has kind of nudged within me during centering prayer. Or for that matter, God. God is talking to us all the time. It's just us to choose. We just choose not to listen. So God's probably not giving me these inner nudges only in centering prayer. He's doing it whenever, whenever God feels like it. So outside of centering prayer, I do a lot of journaling. So I'm just reflecting on how do I feel, what nudges do I feel from God? What are some actions I should take, what are some goals I should take, what are ways I should tweak some of my existing goals, how do I feel?
And just a reflection time. So I use journaling in that capacity to just kind of get down on paper. What do I think God is asking me to do from this day forward, whether it's today or some type of long term goal. So I use journaling a lot. But you could also talk to a friend as well and just kind of talk to somebody.
This is what I feel. So kind of a friend, a mentor, or even a counselor for that matter. You can talk to somebody as well, to discern what is it that you think God is pushing you, nudging you to do.
[00:21:30] Speaker A: No, I totally agree. I think that we hear from God in lots of different ways. I mean, sometimes outdoors and sometimes in our prayer.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: Right. I mean, I think.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: And you know, there's.
Sometimes you hear more directly and sometimes it's less directly. Sometimes you hear from God, I think from friends and you know, from good advice and of course from reading the Bible. And you know, there's, there's lots of ways that we hear from God and Sometimes it's really clear and sometimes you have to really kind of figure it out. But, you know, it's kind of different from the world. The world just seems very loud. It seems like we're in a very noisy world.
There's all kinds of messages coming from all kinds of different directions. You've got the media and you've got social media and you've got people trying to sell you things and, you know, it's hard to even tell what's true anymore. There's so many sources and, and we don't agree with the authority of different sources and whether or not they're true or trustworthy.
I mean, do you feel like centering prayer as a practice is a way to take a break from the world? Is it, is it helpful to kind of tune out the world for a while? And you know, I, I imagine we can't tune out the world the whole time, but maybe it's good, maybe it's good sometimes to take a break and tune out the world and just sit quietly with God. I mean, God is, He's good company. He's. He's good and relaxing to sit with. Is it, is it good to take a break sometimes and do that? Is that, is that what you think?
[00:23:20] Speaker B: No, I definitely think we need to take a break from the world. Whether it's take a break from social media and reading what people will be or posting on social media, or take a break from the news and watching the news, or take a break from reading the news on the Internet, I think we definitely need to. In fact, a couple years back, I was at Penn State when I lived in Pennsylvania, Penn State had a local campus and I spoke to, there was a, I guess a Christian group and they let me come in and talk about centering prayer. So I was speaking to 18 to 22 year olds roughly. And then I talked to them about centering prayer, which was obviously a foreign concept to them. This is praying and this is how I pray to God. But the one thing I heard from them was, and when I grew up, we didn't have cell phones. I'm 58. So when I, when I was growing up, there was, there were no cell phones and Internet and Facebook and social media. But what, what I was hearing from them is they, they need a break from all the drama as they were calling it. Social media and the Internet and the instant connection and instant access to news can be, become very. Drama can make you very wary, very anxious. So that I was hearing, it was kind of neat to hear that from them that this type of practice probably could help on that front. And we need to perhaps shut off our phones and get off the Internet and slow ourselves down and calm ourselves down.
[00:24:50] Speaker A: Just don't stop listening to podcasts.
[00:24:53] Speaker B: Well, that's. That's. That's good. That's. That's good noise. And actually, I think it's. I think that's.
I guess you're right. It can be a bad noise, but I think a lot of it is a good noise, full of a lot of good, fun interviews and useful information.
[00:25:12] Speaker A: Do you think that the practice also makes you or makes someone a better listener? Because I would think that being still and being quiet and listening to God would also help people, maybe become a better listener, Better listener to other people as well.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say. I definitely say so, because the practice, if you think about it, you're just sitting and letting go of your thoughts and your emotions and opening to the present moment. And that's what you need to do to be a better listener. You need to let go of you and your thoughts and your emotions and your next statement. You're going to say when someone has said something and just open to the present moment. So that's really what you do. It's helped me with listening, and it's probably helped others as well, because you're just letting go of you and giving your attention to the present moment, which at that point is the present moment of a friend or peer or even a stranger, and just listening to them and what they have to say with hopefully out any criticism or judgment and just letting them see you and then just accepting what they have to say without judgment or criticism. So I think in my case, it's helped me tremendously just to be a better listener and not be so quick to judge and critique and sometimes realize some people, they don't even want your opinion. They just wanted you to listen to them. Particularly with my wife, I've learned that from my wife, and it's taken me probably too long to learn that is, she's like, I don't want your opinion. I just wanted you to hear what I had to say. I didn't ask for you to fix it. I just needed to share my day with you. But I don't. You didn't need to tell me, well, you should have done this or that. You just. I just wanted you to listen.
What.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: What do you mean you don't want me to fix it? I mean, that's like. That's our job as men, right? To fix stuff. I mean, come on.
But seriously, so since you've been doing it kind of, what do you think that the practice of centering prayer has taught you?
[00:27:08] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think centering prayer has taught me, you know, a couple things. One, it's, it's taught me sometimes to be more patient and I don't need to act right away because sometimes the situation has a way of rectify, sanctifying itself without me doing anything. So I've learned that. So I, I've learned to be patient and not jump right to an answer or and just wait because sometimes I don't need to do anything.
Sometimes I'm the wrong person and I'm trying to fix something or do something and I have the wrong skill set and someone else is better served to help that situation.
Or it's words taught me now is the time to act and I, and I need to act. And so it helps me. It's helped me pause, then discernment. Am I the right person? Should I act now? Should I have some patience and let the situation play out? Or am I just kidding myself and I don't have the right skill set and I need someone else to help because if I try to help, it's going to not help the situation. So it's definitely helped me discern, discern the right thing kind of the way forward.
And even like I do and I do some one on one coaching. And even silence in coaching is fine, where you ask a question and there's a long pause, that's okay, you can wait 30 seconds or a minute if you need to for the other person to think and respond. Silence is fine and I'll use that in coaching where you don't have to say anything. It just means the other person's thinking and pondering and then they'll start talking. And I've used it with clients, I handle corporate accounts and I've used silence in meetings where it's okay to have some silence. It means the other side is just mulling over something before they talk. You don't need to fill it with noise.
[00:28:53] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, I think in, in lots of social, social situations it seems like silence is awkward or silence is something to be avoided kind of at all costs.
But you know, I think a lot and talk a lot on this podcast about mind, body and spirit, wellness.
And kind of the, the goals or metrics for that are peace of mind, vitality of body, and joy of spirit. And you know, I think this kind of hits on several of those, not just the joy of Spirit from a prayerful meditation practice, but also peace of mind.
You know, putting aside the clutter of the world and all the noises of the world for a while is really an extra.
Is a primary benefit of meditation and centering prayer as you describe it.
[00:29:55] Speaker B: No, I would agree, I would agree. I mean, you're bringing your mind, your body, and connecting to the spirit within you during centering prayer. And during centering prayer, you're clearing the clutter of your mind, letting go and coming to the present moment. And then it helps you outside of your practice where you can let go of things that maybe you don't need to pay to attention to and hone in and focus on the present moment. So centering prayer is very much a kind of a mind, body, spirit practice.
[00:30:24] Speaker A: Hmm.
So what else. What, what are you. What are you excited about coming up? What's coming up for you? What are you excited about these days?
[00:30:35] Speaker B: Well, I'm looking forward to. You know, I had my first book, Sitting with God, came out in August of 2020. I've been writing my second book and right now it's written and I'm in edit mode. So I'm excited about finishing it. I'm continuously honing it and editing it, but I'm excited about getting it to the publisher hopefully by the end of the year or shortly after the beginning of next year, and getting that book published sometime in depending upon the publisher schedule. 2025 would be nice, but if it has to go to 2026. So I'm excited about coming out with the second book. Is publisher had asked me to write about. How can a practice such as centering prayer help us with the daily news, which we talked a little bit about the noisiness of the world. And that's kind of a loaded question because, you know, centering prayer can help us with the media and events that are happening, whether it's inflation, the economy, wars, elections, but it can also help us with just are the events of our daily lives, whatever they are, whether it's sickness, illnesses, or even job losses or downsizings. So the book's really about how centering prayer can help you with the daily events of your lives, of your life, whatever it is. So that's primarily what the book is about.
And I. So I'm excited about finishing that and getting that out into the world.
I continue to be excited about myself and a gentleman by the name of Brian Russell, who also has a podcast we've been doing for well over a year. It might even be two years now. We do a monthly Centering Prayer gathering where we give a small. We give a small talk, which is really kind of us bantering back and forth on a topic. Like our next topic next Saturday is centering prayer and suffering and how a practice such as centering prayer can help with suffering. So, and then at the end of the.
So we will do a talk about 15, 20 minutes, we'll do a centering prayer sit with everybody, and then we'll have enough time for Q and A and anybody that wants to share. So I always look forward to those monthly talks that we do only because the ending kind of after the centering prayer set, it's always fun to hear the questions and it's always fun to hear people's testimonies and things that they have to share. So I always look forward to that. And then. And then a thought in my head that I'm toying with. I don't have time now, but I think after my book, second book is published, toying around in my head with the idea of creating my own podcast. And it could have a combination of solo episodes where I'm just sharing, and then it could also include guests coming on and me, you know, interviewing guests. So I'm toying with that idea in my head. Down the road. I think I'd love to do a podcast because I love.
I love being a guest. So. And I've done. I've done a few, actually. I did a few interviews and just put them on my YouTube channel. So I interviewed three or four, I think four people at this point. I started tinkering in it and I did interviews of people and put it on my YouTube channel. So I tinkered with how it would go, and it was fun. So I think that that's on the radar for the future is a podcast.
[00:34:01] Speaker A: Very cool. Very cool. Hey, so how can people learn more? How can people get in touch with you?
[00:34:10] Speaker B: Sure. The best place to find me is just silenceteaches.com when they come there, if they subscribe, they'll get a free Centering Prayer ebook, which is very easy to read and learn more about this practice. And then if they find that they're further interested, they can certainly check out my book on my website. But silenceteaches.com is the best place to find me, receive my weekly meditations, and learn more about what I have going on.
[00:34:37] Speaker A: Perfect.
So, Rich, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me on the podcast. I appreciate it. I think that centering prayer is a really great practice. Helps people to, you know, push aside the conflicting messages and clutter and overwhelm for a while in a really healthy, productive way. Helps them to connect with God and to sort their own selves out at the same time. And you know I just really appreciate the way that you have, you know put a lot of time and effort into spreading this message and helping people with this practice and I wish you all the luck with your new book. I look forward to that and encourage people to get the first book now and thank you so much. Appreciate it.
[00:35:27] Speaker B: No thanks for having me on. It was a whole lot of fun and hopefully this will be helpful for your community.
[00:35:33] Speaker A: Absolutely.
Thank you for asking what's worthwhile visit whatsworthwhile.net to learn more about me, Ramsey Zimmerman and please provide your name and email to become a supporter. I'm asking for prayer advice, feedback and connections. The what's Worthwhile podcast is on Spotify, Apple, Iheart and Amazon. You can also
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